Re: Ryan & Bentley : Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:42 pm  

Greg Florimos Boots wrote:

Posts like these get my goat and its not aimed at you Bullseye or even at Bradford for that matter, its more the system that is in place. Bradford are good at producing young players? Well its easy when you can go in to any catchment area and offer the bright lights of full time rugby isnt it, you are bound to "unearth" one or two gems. Just taking the all conquering Siddal U16 team from this year, how many of them will we see at Fax? Zero, we do not even get a look in, in the past though Bradford would have taken some of these players but as far as I know Bradford now hardly get a look in when it comes to the top young players and none of the players will be heading Bradford's way to produce so although you say its a shame other clubs are not as good as producing it will only be a short time now before the same will be said about Bradford.

Maybe the dig was aimed more at SL teams though and it that sense they will be like vultures knowing full well that if they want one of your players they can simply take them without having to pay a fee. The system is a shambles and until that changes the game as a whole will not improve and we will keep losing players who could have made it because they have nowhere to play.

Despite all our off-field dramas we certainly do still attract some of the very best young talent in the country thanks to the setup and culture John Bastian has installed at the club. Remember the names Joe Brown, Jake Trueman, Daniel Waite-Pullman, Luke Hooley, Cameron Scott. All those players will be household names in a few years. All began and chose the Bulls academy because of the culture John Bastian created. All flourished under the coaching of Matt Diskin and John. We still attract, produce and develop some of the best in the game. We still managed to keep a few despite the latest off-field farce. Theres a lot of problems with the club but our academy is still draw IMHO

Regarding the catchment area Greg, not sure if this was your point, so apologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick, but i don't get that if a player plays/lives in one particular area, then he should have to play for that club E.G. if he plays for Siddal he should play for Fax academy. Matty Storton who is part of our academy played for Keighley Cubs. Should he have to play for Keighley cougars?

I hope the rule where a player under the age of 21 who has come through a clubs academy, is offered a contract by the same club, but decides to go to another club, the the club that developed him through their academy gets compensation. I believe it used to be around £15k.

I think RFL tried to address the issue Of rewarding clubs for developing young talent, but in true RFL style loved it up by bringing in compensation rules for 16 year olds which is too young.

Re: Ryan & Bentley : Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:31 pm  

Bull Mania wrote:

Despite all our off-field dramas we certainly do still attract some of the very best young talent in the country thanks to the setup and culture John Bastian has installed at the club. Remember the names Joe Brown, Jake Trueman, Daniel Waite-Pullman, Luke Hooley, Cameron Scott. All those players will be household names in a few years. All began and chose the Bulls academy because of the culture John Bastian created. All flourished under the coaching of Matt Diskin and John. We still attract, produce and develop some of the best in the game. We still managed to keep a few despite the latest off-field farce. Theres a lot of problems with the club but our academy is still draw IMHO

Regarding the catchment area Greg, not sure if this was your point, so apologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick, but i don't get that if a player plays/lives in one particular area, then he should have to play for that club E.G. if he plays for Siddal he should play for Fax academy. Matty Storton who is part of our academy played for Keighley Cubs. Should he have to play for Keighley cougars?

I hope the rule where a player under the age of 21 who has come through a clubs academy, is offered a contract by the same club, but decides to go to another club, the the club that developed him through their academy gets compensation. I believe it used to be around £15k.

I think RFL tried to address the issue Of rewarding clubs for developing young talent, but in true RFL style loved it up by bringing in compensation rules for 16 year olds which is too young.

Ive no idea how it would work to be honest but at the moment it comes down to who has the biggest cheque book and SL sides signing players on the off chance they might make it. Bradford will find this out to a much greater extent when your academy becomes of less importance than the money it costs to run it which will happen eventually. Maybe Im a little bit bitter because we have the best junior set up in the country at Siddal but do not have a hope in hell of getting any of their players. There has to be a fairer way of doing it for the good of the competition.

Re: Ryan & Bentley : Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:34 pm  

Greg Florimos Boots wrote:

Ive no idea how it would work to be honest but at the moment it comes down to who has the biggest cheque book and SL sides signing players on the off chance they might make it. Bradford will find this out to a much greater extent when your academy becomes of less importance than the money it costs to run it which will happen eventually. Maybe Im a little bit bitter because we have the best junior set up in the country at Siddal but do not have a hope in hell of getting any of their players. There has to be a fairer way of doing it for the good of the competition.

Bradford haven't had a large cheque book for a while now so why are they still producing good players??

Re: Ryan & Bentley : Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:21 am  

Whilst I agree with 90% of what has been said on this thread the biggest crime is Pro clubs signing kids in droves, telling them there the next big thing and then discarding them as worthless at an age where they are then lost to the game all together. It is F@@@ing criminal and I'm afraid Bradford have been one of the worst for it over the last 15 years.

Re: Ryan & Bentley : Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:24 am  

RickyF1 wrote:

Bradford haven't had a large cheque book for a while now so why are they still producing good players??

The players that Bradford are now seeing are players that were signed when they were still living beyond their means. You will see a distinct drop in quality over the coming years as you go part time and the academy has to take a back seat.

Re: Ryan & Bentley : Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:25 am  

herr rigsby wrote:

Whilst I agree with 90% of what has been said on this thread the biggest crime is Pro clubs signing kids in droves, telling them there the next big thing and then discarding them as worthless at an age where they are then lost to the game all together. It is F@@@ing criminal and I'm afraid Bradford have been one of the worst for it over the last 15 years.

Totally agree, some of these kids would be better signing at part time clubs and been developed slowly but SL clubs can not take that chance just in case they miss one.

Re: Ryan & Bentley : Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:53 am  

Eventually the penny will drop that the sport needs building from the ground up. Some SL supporters are already suggesting that there aren't enough players playing the game to support a 13 or 14 team super league.
They should never have voted to scrap the reserves structure. It should never have even been put to a vote in the first place. Clubs should have been made to run a reserves setup even if it meant doing so at the detriment of their first team squad.
Instead we have this farce where countless players reach the age of 19 and immediately find themselves in limbo or being passed from pillar to post, Rawsthorne being a perfect example.

Re: Ryan & Bentley : Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:04 am  

Greg Florimos Boots wrote:

The players that Bradford are now seeing are players that were signed when they were still living beyond their means. You will see a distinct drop in quality over the coming years as you go part time and the academy has to take a back seat.

Funny i was talking to someone from the club on Saturday and they are of the opinion they have some very talent individuals they are picking up.

Re: Ryan & Bentley : Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:47 am  

Greg Florimos Boots wrote:

Totally agree, some of these kids would be better signing at part time clubs and been developed slowly but SL clubs can not take that chance just in case they miss one.

Agreed. Look at James Bentley. Had offers from other clubs as ajunior. Chose us, been developed, still eligible for the academy this year, but has played every minute of every game he's been fit for and has scored 12 tries this year. He now has a choice of eight SL clubs all wanting to sign him.

Browsing around various clubs boards regarding junior development, there does seem to be a theme that some of the starlets at U16s, get offered ridiculous money (Warrington seem to be guilty of this) and then the said player never kicks on. The Leeds board gives a few examples of when they had players with huge potential on their books. Warrington came and offered stupid money (I've heard offering 30k for players graduating from scholarship level to join their U19s) and then the player never develops and is another a wasted talent. Who have Warrington developed in the last couple of years that has established themselves? Not having a go at Warrington as they at least fund a reserves, but my point is some junior players get offered silly money for a "bigger" club, then either fall in love with themselves or never kick on. Staying at a smaller club and being developed is sometimes the better option. A lot of the bigger clubs struggle to develop and nurture talent. Warrington, Hull, and even Saints don't seem to be producing first team players like before. I still think we're one of the best at developing talent and long may it continue whatever division we're in.

Re: Ryan & Bentley : Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:17 am  

Bull Mania wrote:

Agreed. Look at James Bentley. Had offers from other clubs as ajunior. Chose us, been developed, still eligible for the academy this year, but has played every minute of every game he's been fit for and has scored 12 tries this year. He now has a choice of eight SL clubs all wanting to sign him.

Browsing around various clubs boards regarding junior development, there does seem to be a theme that some of the starlets at U16s, get offered ridiculous money (Warrington seem to be guilty of this) and then the said player never kicks on. The Leeds board gives a few examples of when they had players with huge potential on their books. Warrington came and offered stupid money (I've heard offering 30k for players graduating from scholarship level to join their U19s) and then the player never develops and is another a wasted talent. Who have Warrington developed in the last couple of years that has established themselves? Not having a go at Warrington as they at least fund a reserves, but my point is some junior players get offered silly money for a "bigger" club, then either fall in love with themselves or never kick on. Staying at a smaller club and being developed is sometimes the better option. A lot of the bigger clubs struggle to develop and nurture talent. Warrington, Hull, and even Saints don't seem to be producing first team players like before. I still think we're one of the best at developing talent and long may it continue whatever division we're in.

Agreed Bullmania. I know that John Bastian leads a team that have a superb track record of recruiting talented youngsters , many of whom have had the chance to go to Super League academies. It is not the cheque book that has persuaded these young 'uns ( and their families!!) , rather the programme of development and the links to educational institutions. There are many examples of young players who have not secured full time contracts but have nevertheless learnt skills which will stand them in good stead for the future .
Whatever the faults of the RFL ( and there are many), I for one am glad they included continuation of the Academy as one of the criteria for new ownership. And I'm pleased Chalmers has made a firm commitment to continuing the Academy next year regardless of survival in the championship or relegation.