Re: Administration Again : Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:03 am  

I still want to know what the VAT dispute is in relation to. I can't think of any source of income the club might have had where we could even begin to dispute the VAT treatment of it, it boggles my mind.

If we really are looking at debts of £750k then how could anyone get it so wrong? Whatever happened to running this club like a business? I mean, in this season just gone we actually had a decent level of central funding, season ticket sales were around the same as 2014, all our major sponsors were still on board - I can't really think of anything that could have thrown a spanner in the works as far as cashflow forecasts are concerned.
And before anyone suggests the Fev result or our final league position - that can't be it. Yes the drop in gate receipts from the playoff games will have hurt but not to this extent. The reduced central funding issue hasn't even kicked in yet - that's for 2017 if we make it that far!

Just baffling. We've had to suffer through a (seemingly) endless succession of owners who are just incapable of running the Bulls with even a hint of competence.

Re: Administration Again : Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:05 am  

Bullseye wrote: It’d be interesting to know how much debt there is. I expect the HMRC to be in the region of about £200k-250k. Green’s put himself in the list of creditors too (which makes me feel that he’s on his way), then there’s the various other bills that won’t have been paid. Could be the thick end of £750k+. Would a new investor want to lumber himself with that for the sake of 6 league points? That said 12 points is a fair penalty if no debt is paid off. Unfortunately as we know admin is never a quick process. Potential buyers (if there are any) will need to do full diligence checks and that could take time. If we get out of this with a mere 6 point deduction I’ll be amazed. This bloke might be our saviour. He has a good record at City, not sure about his plans for Odsal, think any BMDC input is going to be unlikely. http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/s ... Bulls_bid/ I would take a guess it's more like a million pounds, the last set of filed accounts showed they lost £756k, plus the £200-£250k to HMRC plus other creditors and then GREEN. I think Lawn would be a good choice, very good business knowledge, he turned Bradford City around.

Bullseye wrote: It’d be interesting to know how much debt there is. I expect the HMRC to be in the region of about £200k-250k. Green’s put himself in the list of creditors too (which makes me feel that he’s on his way), then there’s the various other bills that won’t have been paid. Could be the thick end of £750k+. Would a new investor want to lumber himself with that for the sake of 6 league points? That said 12 points is a fair penalty if no debt is paid off. Unfortunately as we know admin is never a quick process. Potential buyers (if there are any) will need to do full diligence checks and that could take time. If we get out of this with a mere 6 point deduction I’ll be amazed. This bloke might be our saviour. He has a good record at City, not sure about his plans for Odsal, think any BMDC input is going to be unlikely. http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/s ... Bulls_bid/ I would take a guess it's more like a million pounds, the last set of filed accounts showed they lost £756k, plus the £200-£250k to HMRC plus other creditors and then GREEN. I think Lawn would be a good choice, very good business knowledge, he turned Bradford City around.

Re: Administration Again : Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:09 am  

Was tempted by the Giants season ticket deal, but then I thought if I ever fancy watching half of their 2017 squad underperform, I'll watch an old Bradford match from the past few years.

[Bullseye]

Re: Administration Again : Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:11 am  

Think there was a lot of mistakes made in 2015. Look at the money wasted on players. Control over recruitment seemed to spiral out of control. Green, Ferres and Lowes can take the blame for that.

The HMRC on VAT is easier to understand than if it was on National Insurance. Plenty of people on here have experience of this and reckon that this happens a lot in business. Unfortunately we’re too skint to be able to pay it off and claim it back later when a compromise figure is agreed. Where the disagreement comes from I don’t know. I seem to remember Hood and Bennett has a similar issue and were found out in the same way. Either way we owe them and unless it’s paid off it’ll be a 12 point deduction – IF we still have a club.

The other debts are a grey area. I’m not sure what Green thinks he’s owed. He obviously is aiming to get some money back. There will be a lot of other businesses that are owed money too. My figure of £750k was a pure guess. It may be half that, it may be more.

The ground situation doesn’t give us much flexibility either. The place is a giant iconic millstone.

Re: Administration Again : Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:18 am  

Nothus wrote:

I still want to know what the VAT dispute is in relation to. I can't think of any source of income the club might have had where we could even begin to dispute the VAT treatment of it, it boggles my mind.

If we really are looking at debts of £750k then how could anyone get it so wrong? Whatever happened to running this club like a business? I mean, in this season just gone we actually had a decent level of central funding, season ticket sales were around the same as 2014, all our major sponsors were still on board - I can't really think of anything that could have thrown a spanner in the works as far as cashflow forecasts are concerned.
And before anyone suggests the Fev result or our final league position - that can't be it. Yes the drop in gate receipts from the playoff games will have hurt but not to this extent. The reduced central funding issue hasn't even kicked in yet - that's for 2017 if we make it that far!

Just baffling. We've had to suffer through a (seemingly) endless succession of owners who are just incapable of running the Bulls with even a hint of competence.

The VAT situation is straight forward, As a club a season ticket is is taxable (VAT) but Green has been selling a membership, a membership isn't taxable. But if you are a member of a club (Like a golf club, you own a % of the club, even if its 0.01% of the club) This then gives you voting right's of what goes on at the club. Green hasn't been offering this, so in turn he has been selling a Season ticket and not a membership. Which explains the big difference in the amount of VAT we owe.

I should also make the comment, this is what i have been told second hand - I don't have any proof, but does sound very likely.

Re: Administration Again : Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:21 am  

As for Mark Lawn, his name cropped up in both of our previous Administrations. Both times he was in the T&A offering to buy the club, and both times he didn't. I'd be interested to know why?

If I recall, he wasn't actually that interested last time - his bid was more of a 'if nobody else buys the club, then I'll buy it rather than see it go to the wall'. Since then he's actually sold Bradford City to other people, so perhaps he has more time and interest this time around, who knows?

He's quite open that he doesn't know anything much about Rugby, but he does seem to know how to turn around a failing sporting club in Bradford!

Re: Administration Again : Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:30 am  

Why is it so many people involved in running sports clubs have a very poor grasp of accounting?

If the membership/subscription thing is true it's a ruddy scandal.

Re: Administration Again : Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:52 am  

Mark Lawn's record at running a sports club isn't to be sniffed at. He is someone who will really divide opinion and many City fans love him, and many hate him but he can only be judged on his record and City were on a downward spiral when he joined and when he handed over the reigns they were and still are on the way up.

His input into City wasn't realised overnight however, Bradford spent 5 years rattling round the lower leagues before moving on up. I think he will look at Bulls in a smiliar way, he won't expect them to be in Super League the year after he takes over, he'd like it but I guess he is a realist.

There are many worse candidates out there than Lawn, Bulls have found themselves with many of them actually running the club. It's a little more positive however the line about City moving to Odsal and Odsal being redeveloped. I can't see that happening anytime. To bring Odsal up to Football League standard would cost as much as it would do to buy Valley Parade outright. The council can't and won't fund it as it would be political suicide. I think most of the Bradford public would ask why a stadium could be built with Council cash but the bins can't be collected weekly, etc, etc.

It will be interesting to see how it develops, one thing is for certain Green can't possibly be in control come the start of next season.

Re: Administration Again : Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:10 am  

ExiledViking wrote:

Only Bradford born because his Dad (a music hall performer at the time) was playing the Bradford Alhambra on the same night.
And if you want to know why there is a restaurant at the DW Stadium called "Rigaletto's" it's because it's named after his dad's stage name...Tony Rigaletto.

You do realise that it's the mother that has the baby.

Re: Administration Again : Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:12 am  

BD20 wrote:

Mark Lawn's record at running a sports club isn't to be sniffed at. He is someone who will really divide opinion and many City fans love him, and many hate him but he can only be judged on his record and City were on a downward spiral when he joined and when he handed over the reigns they were and still are on the way up.

His input into City wasn't realised overnight however, Bradford spent 5 years rattling round the lower leagues before moving on up. I think he will look at Bulls in a smiliar way, he won't expect them to be in Super League the year after he takes over, he'd like it but I guess he is a realist.
.

Thats OK. We already rattled around the bottom for nearly that long.