Re: Ryan & Bentley : Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:08 pm  

Greg Florimos Boots wrote:

I guess its all dependant on what sort of contract he is on as if its only a part time one then you have no chance of getting anything if a full time team comes in for him where as if its a full time one you may have a chance albeit a small one.

What? It has nothing to do with that.
It's determined by the age of the player at the point of him leaving his parent club.
Either way, it's a pittance and is in no way any kind of incentive to keep going through this bullsh*t cycle of developing quality players and immediately losing them the instant they show any potential whatsoever.

[Bullseye]

Re: Ryan & Bentley : Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:27 pm  

Greg Florimos Boots wrote:

Posts like these get my goat and its not aimed at you Bullseye or even at Bradford for that matter, its more the system that is in place. Bradford are good at producing young players? Well its easy when you can go in to any catchment area and offer the bright lights of full time rugby isnt it, you are bound to "unearth" one or two gems. Just taking the all conquering Siddal U16 team from this year, how many of them will we see at Fax? Zero, we do not even get a look in, in the past though Bradford would have taken some of these players but as far as I know Bradford now hardly get a look in when it comes to the top young players and none of the players will be heading Bradford's way to produce so although you say its a shame other clubs are not as good as producing it will only be a short time now before the same will be said about Bradford.

Maybe the dig was aimed more at SL teams though and it that sense they will be like vultures knowing full well that if they want one of your players they can simply take them without having to pay a fee. The system is a shambles and until that changes the game as a whole will not improve and we will keep losing players who could have made it because they have nowhere to play.

I think you probably needed to pause for thought before you started this post GFB as that comment seems to be all over the place. So we signed O'Brien and Ollie Roberts from Siddal once. They're gone now. Ryan is a Bradford lad, Bentley from Oulton. Times have changed for Bradford as you acknowledge later. We can't compete on salaries or on SL glory, just having a good setup and track record of improving players.

Big clubs always have trawled catchments outside their area. Twas ever thus. We've been victims and beneficiaries of it over the years. So have Fax albeit more time the victim.

We've done very well taking on players that weren't wanted recently and turned them into decent prospects. Take Reiss Butterworth who made his league debut yesterday. Came through at Sharlston. Taken on by Fev then let go. We gave him a chance and he's taking it.

I guess my frustration is that we take a lot of lads who were initially overlooked by SL clubs, improve them and then those same SL clubs come in for them like vultures as you say. If only we could get our act together off the field we might have hung onto a few. Bradford lads like Whitehead and Bateman are instead in their prime elsewhere

Re: Ryan & Bentley : Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:33 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

I think you probably needed to pause for thought before you started this post GFB as that comment seems to be all over the place. So we signed O'Brien and Ollie Roberts from Siddal once. They're gone now. Ryan is a Bradford lad, Bentley from Oulton. Times have changed for Bradford as you acknowledge later. We can't compete on salaries or on SL glory, just having a good setup and track record of improving players.

Big clubs always have trawled catchments outside their area. Twas ever thus. We've been victims and beneficiaries of it over the years. So have Fax albeit more time the victim.

We've done very well taking on players that weren't wanted recently and turned them into decent prospects. Take Reiss Butterworth who made his league debut yesterday. Came through at Sharlston. Taken on by Fev then let go. We gave him a chance and he's taking it.

I guess my frustration is that we take a lot of lads who were initially overlooked by SL clubs, improve them and then those same SL clubs come in for them like vultures as you say. If only we could get our act together off the field we might have hung onto a few. Bradford lads like Whitehead and Bateman are instead in their prime elsewhere

Butterworth played his junior rugby at Stanley Rangers I think. Sharlston have only recently set their junior section up.

I agree entirely with what you say in your post. The long and short of it is that the Bulls aren't as attractive a proposition as they used to be for young lads, so they have to find some rough diamonds from somewhere. The fact that players are getting a chance of first team rugby could see more wanting to join, but I fear that the club will become a stepping stone.

[Bullseye]

Re: Ryan & Bentley : Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:36 pm  

John B told me he was at Sharlston but he could well have been at Stanley too.

Re: Ryan & Bentley : Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:44 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

I think you probably needed to pause for thought before you started this post GFB as that comment seems to be all over the place. So we signed O'Brien and Ollie Roberts from Siddal once. They're gone now. Ryan is a Bradford lad, Bentley from Oulton. Times have changed for Bradford as you acknowledge later. We can't compete on salaries or on SL glory, just having a good setup and track record of improving players.

Big clubs always have trawled catchments outside their area. Twas ever thus. We've been victims and beneficiaries of it over the years. So have Fax albeit more time the victim.

We've done very well taking on players that weren't wanted recently and turned them into decent prospects. Take Reiss Butterworth who made his league debut yesterday. Came through at Sharlston. Taken on by Fev then let go. We gave him a chance and he's taking it.

I guess my frustration is that we take a lot of lads who were initially overlooked by SL clubs, improve them and then those same SL clubs come in for them like vultures as you say. If only we could get our act together off the field we might have hung onto a few. Bradford lads like Whitehead and Bateman are instead in their prime elsewhere

Yeah sorry I did notice my post was all over the place half way through typing it but thought what the heck it is Monday afternoon afterall.

Nick Rawsthorne another example in a player disregarded then improved only to go to a SL team and how did Fax do? We got diddly squat because of the old better standard of employment thing that I mentioned in my previous post. The question is firstly is it worth it for teams like us and the 2nd question is can we live without feeding off the scraps that the SL teams give us?

Re: Ryan & Bentley : Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:46 pm  

Imagine an ideal world where players from catchment areas got assigned to their local pro clubs with funding from the RFL to improve them and also to pay the amateur club that produced them. Then they stay at that club for a minimum of say a couple of years and if a SL team or anyone wants to take them they have to pay a fee again with a % of that fee going to the amateur club. We can only dream of a system like that which could improve the whole game but the top clubs would never go for it.

[Bullseye]

Re: Ryan & Bentley : Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:52 pm  

Nice idea in theory. Certainly think there's scope for improving the system, at the moment it must be disheartening for coaching staff to work hard to get a kid through to the first team to then seem him depart elsewhere. Community clubs get naff all out of it.

We have to suck it up I'm afraid. It's that or nothing until some madman with pots of money to waste (sorry invest) comes along.

[Bulliac]

Re: Ryan & Bentley : Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:24 pm  

Greg Florimos Boots wrote:

Imagine an ideal world where players from catchment areas got assigned to their local pro clubs with funding from the RFL to improve them and also to pay the amateur club that produced them. Then they stay at that club for a minimum of say a couple of years and if a SL team or anyone wants to take them they have to pay a fee again with a % of that fee going to the amateur club. We can only dream of a system like that which could improve the whole game but the top clubs would never go for it.

That's fine in principle GFB but, like you earlier post, it misses the point somewhat.

Players don't become good professonals because of the particular blades of grass they train on, but by the quality of the training given. The facilities and coaches are not all equal. The Bulls' academy is rated amongst the best in RL, better than many SL clubs, in fact. It is also very expensive to run and is without doubt, with the possible exception of players wages, probably our biggest expenditure. The RFL were adamant that it should continue when the new guys took over, so they can also see the benefit of it. I'm not knocking what is available at other clubs, they do what they can, but it doesn't mean they offer the same coaching, or chances, as others.

Re: Ryan & Bentley : Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:03 pm  

Gregory, John Bastion has openly stated that the club cannot compete with SL clubs for the cream of the countries talent. They have had to cast their net elsewhere and sign players that have previously been overlooked by the top clubs. Cameron Scott all of a sudden became the most sought after player once he'd been in the system 12 months. He was playing 3 division as a Junior.

Re: Ryan & Bentley : Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:32 pm  

Bulliac wrote:

The RFL were adamant that it should continue when the new guys took over, so Huddersfield Giants can also see the benefit of it..

Corrected for accuracy