: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:52 am  

Tiger Beer wrote:

Don't hold you breath waiting for punishment if Leeds are found to have cheated.

No Team has cheated though have they??? Whilst I appreciate those using image rights have done things that may be constrewed as "not within the spirit of the competition" at the end of the day they've found a loophole and exploited that. Im of the belief "full credit to the club" thats got away with what it can! Whats done is done and I personallly believe the RFL won't retrospectively punish clubs for what they have done. What I think should happen (and Im sure is in the pipeline) is that the RFL should close the loophole and forget about it.....£1.6 million is plenty

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:01 am  

it'll be interesting to see how many clubs can persuade players to take a pay cut so they can fit in the cap when they have to start paying tax/NI. Players will rightly claim they have a contract so we might either see quite a lot of fringe players being released to pay for the difference or a couple of high profile overseas players looking for a new club next year.
If the RFL write off past indiscretions as being within the understanding of the rules at the time and start policing it from now will we see more players available mid season?

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:01 am  

Northern Lad wrote:

I guess that would be determined whether they believe they have broken the tax law or just used a loop hole. If it's a loop hole i guess they will be told to stop for next season and if it's a case of broken....they should be penalised, no if's, no but's

I refer the honourable gentleman to the posts I have made here and elsewhere on this subject earlier, when I've tried to explain it.

Once again - its NOT a loophole that's been closed - you need legislation for that. Its certain clubs interpretation of the tax law not according with that of HMRC. And HMRC appear to have won the argument (its not a new issue - been going on for a few years in professional sport). That means we are talking underdeducted and underpaid tax and NIC going back several years.

The issue now appears to be resolving the amounts that implicated clubs have to pay - and I stress, for BACK tax - and resolving a common framework that HMRC is happy with going forward.

Which means that implicated clubs have effectively - and with the benefit of what we (think) we know now - been cheating the cap over the years, even if they claim (or even believe) that they were operating within the rules. But, as I keep saying, I don't think for one minute the RFL will take retrospective action, regardless of the moral arguments.

And, as I keep saying...interesting times.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:02 am  

SDB wrote:

No Team has cheated though have they??? Whilst I appreciate those using image rights have done things that may be constrewed as "not within the spirit of the competition" at the end of the day they've found a loophole and exploited that. Im of the belief "full credit to the club" thats got away with what it can! Whats done is done and I personallly believe the RFL won't retrospectively punish clubs for what they have done. What I think should happen (and Im sure is in the pipeline) is that the RFL should close the loophole and forget about it.....£1.6 million is plenty

See my post above.

Its not a loophole. It appears to have been shown by HMRC to be tax evasion. That's cheating?

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:08 am  

SDB wrote:

No Team has cheated though have they??? Whilst I appreciate those using image rights have done things that may be constrewed as "not within the spirit of the competition" at the end of the day they've found a loophole and exploited that. Im of the belief "full credit to the club" thats got away with what it can! Whats done is done and I personallly believe the RFL won't retrospectively punish clubs for what they have done. What I think should happen (and Im sure is in the pipeline) is that the RFL should close the loophole and forget about it.....£1.6 million is plenty

But some have cheated. Image Rights have to be included in the declaration to the RFL. These are not being questioned, just the amount given to players - the percentage. But the ones who have used EBT's and not declared them to the RFL will now be found out.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:08 am  

DISA wrote:

Out of interest, why would Leeds be in favour of an increase? condisdering they have not spent the allowed cap fully since the concept came in.

You seriously believe that GH would encourage spending more?

It would depend on whether Leeds were significantly implicated in this activity. If they were not, then I would tend to agree. If they WERE, then they (and every other significantly-implicated club) would need the increase to retain their existing players on the same packages, and to continue offering packages of similar level going forward (especially where contracts have already been entered into).

FWIW, I've said repeatedly that I'd be surprised and disappointed if Leeds are heavily implicated - does not seem the sort of thing Hetherington would want to be involved with, given his very high moral stance and strongly-experessed views on similar issues.

Correction: a club under the cap might well be able to accommodate the increase within their cap space, of course - especially if they left some space in anticipation of - or as insurance against - the issue crystalising.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:11 am  

Tiger Beer wrote:

But some have cheated. Image Rights have to be included in the declaration to the RFL. These are not being questioned, just the amount given to players - the percentage. But the ones who have used EBT's and not declared them to the RFL will now be found out.

Wow. That's a new one. I knew there was a serious issue with the tax status of EBTS. And EBTs are covered by the cap rules. But this is the first I have heard of the possibility of clubs deliberately falsifying salary cap returns - is that what you are suggesting?? Is that just speculation??

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:14 am  

That's my information!

Re: Maybe tax isn;t so boring after all? : Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:15 am  

Adeybull wrote:

Huddersfield hyenas

Mmm...beats Barracudas.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:16 am  

Tiger Beer wrote:

That's my information!

Does your information stretch to whether we as a club need to worry at all?