Brown isn't good enough : Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:15 pm  

He's had almost a full season and we're no better than we were at the start. The first half hour was utterly shambolic, as bad as anything at the start of the season. We were flaccid and timid in the pack and completely lacking in any sort of structure or plan. Who is to blame? Well clearly the players for lacking the aggression and will to fight to stay in a game, but it wasn't helped by Brown's team selection. I almost cried when the team was announced and Walker was starting. Why, just why? We're not a great side, so start the big boys, start with aggression and try to be in the game. What's the point in having a strong bench when we're 22-0 down?

I know we're lacking a scrum half, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put some structures in place and define a way of playing. We stink in attack, the hesitancy from dummy half and the lack of planned moves is ridiculous as is the lack of physical aggression and fight. LMS chest banging in the derby once isn't good enough, it has to be 100% aggression all the time.

Major talking point of the night for me is when the RFL are going to adopt the Rugby Union rule for when a player kicks the ball dead over the goal line. It's such a negative tactic, requiring absolutely no skill at all and allows teams losing the forward battle to default to the opposition start on their 20 with no momentum at all. Get it changed.

Re: Brown isn't good enough : Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:23 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

He's had almost a full season and we're no better than we were at the start. The first half hour was utterly shambolic, as bad as anything at the start of the season. We were flaccid and timid in the pack and completely lacking in any sort of structure or plan. Who is to blame? Well clearly the players for lacking the aggression and will to fight to stay in a game, but it wasn't helped by Brown's team selection. I almost cried when the team was announced and Walker was starting. Why, just why? We're not a great side, so start the big boys, start with aggression and try to be in the game. What's the point in having a strong bench when we're 22-0 down?

I know we're lacking a scrum half, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put some structures in place and define a way of playing. We stink in attack, the hesitancy from dummy half and the lack of planned moves is ridiculous as is the lack of physical aggression and fight. LMS chest banging in the derby once isn't good enough, it has to be 100% aggression all the time.

Major talking point of the night for me is when the RFL are going to adopt the Rugby Union rule for when a player kicks the ball dead over the goal line. It's such a negative tactic, requiring absolutely no skill at all and allows teams losing the forward battle to default to the opposition start on their 20 with no momentum at all. Get it changed.

This i have a major problem with. If you kick from your own half and it goes over the dead ball line, bring it back to the receiving teams 40m line for a tap. Such a cop out and boring tactic. Doesnt matter if the kicker didnt mean it either, bring it back

Re: Brown isn't good enough : Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:26 pm  

Have you seen the interview Brown gave after the game to Sky, he spoke really well & impressed me. No kidding he really did.

If NB were to leave Saints (which he will not) who could you have as replacement. There is no one absolutely no one.

Re: Brown isn't good enough : Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:32 pm  

Fatbelly wrote:

If NB were to leave Saints (which he will not) who could you have as replacement. There is no one absolutely no one.

Tony Smith will leave for another project once he wins a Grand Final.

Re: Brown isn't good enough : Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:33 pm  

I think we need to stick with Brown. Starting with Walker was a joke but we need to hang in and hope he knows this aint Huddersfield and we will hang him next year if it does not come right.

Re: Brown isn't good enough : Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:48 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

He's had almost a full season and we're no better than we were at the start. The first half hour was utterly shambolic, as bad as anything at the start of the season. We were flaccid and timid in the pack and completely lacking in any sort of structure or plan. Who is to blame? Well clearly the players for lacking the aggression and will to fight to stay in a game, but it wasn't helped by Brown's team selection. I almost cried when the team was announced and Walker was starting. Why, just why? We're not a great side, so start the big boys, start with aggression and try to be in the game. What's the point in having a strong bench when we're 22-0 down?

I know we're lacking a scrum half, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put some structures in place and define a way of playing. We stink in attack, the hesitancy from dummy half and the lack of planned moves is ridiculous as is the lack of physical aggression and fight. LMS chest banging in the derby once isn't good enough, it has to be 100% aggression all the time.

Major talking point of the night for me is when the RFL are going to adopt the Rugby Union rule for when a player kicks the ball dead over the goal line. It's such a negative tactic, requiring absolutely no skill at all and allows teams losing the forward battle to default to the opposition start on their 20 with no momentum at all. Get it changed.

Very harsh to say he's not good enough after one injury hit season. Brown is dealing with the mistakes made by previous coaches.

He's come to a team with no halfbacks, we've had backrows, fullbacks, centres playing in the halves which IMO is impossible to challenge for anything with that situation.

He's also come to a squad with a prop problem. We got very very lucky that walmsley stood up so early as Perry is a complete waste of space. Laffranchi isn't a prop as long as his lives. Clough isn't good enough at all. So basically we had Lms as our only out and out decent prop.

The centre is another problem, he came to a club that has played 5 seasons with only one centre. I find this utterly shocking for a supposedly big club to have only one out and out centre on the books!

The injuries to key players hasn't helped at all either. We've had Roby, sia and lomax (our best 3 players) out for large periods of the season. Wouldn't be surprised if they have played only half the season.

We've also give a lot of young lads debuts this year due to injuries which isn't ideal. It's much easier bringing them in gradually in a experienced team playing well.

I'd much rather give my verdict on Brown next September. Next season will be more of his team with a halfback he wanted. He can only bring in what mcamus will allow. It's clear he knows we've got halfback and prop problems and he's trying to sort that mess he was left with.

I still have faith in Brown but anyone who thinks he can change it around in one season must be mad. This IMO is at least a 3 year Job to turn us into cup winners again unless he can splash the cash like Wigan and Salford.

Re: Brown isn't good enough : Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:56 pm  

Loz wrote:

I think we need to stick with Brown. Starting with Walker was a joke but we need to hang in and hope he knows this aint Huddersfield and we will hang him next year if it does not come right.

Other than the obvious financial reasons, why do we need to stick with him? The whole club just looks like it's going through the motions. At Huddersfield Brown had a real trademark way of playing. His side was very, very aggressive and played the game at a real pace, not afraid to get it wide early. After a full season Saints still look clueless. It's like every play the ball is a surprise. The dummy half, usually Howarth, gets the ball and hesistates as there are no players making runs. He then throws the ball to a player who pauses, looks around and gets ploughed to the floor. After this is repeated several times we revert to one out rugby. We waste so many tackles it's untrue. Tonight we got several penalties in the Wire half. We put daft, almost sidewards kicks in as if we wanted to start on their 20. Then we'd waste the first three tackles getting to their line.

Saints at the moment are 17 solid professionals playing off the cuff rugby, just as any 17 players assembled from the NRL and SL would do if you threw them into a game with no training as a team. Makes me wonder what exactly the players do all week in training.

Re: Brown isn't good enough : Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:02 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Other than the obvious financial reasons, why do we need to stick with him? The whole club just looks like it's going through the motions. At Huddersfield Brown had a real trademark way of playing. His side was very, very aggressive and played the game at a real pace, not afraid to get it wide early. After a full season Saints still look clueless. It's like every play the ball is a surprise. The dummy half, usually Howarth, gets the ball and hesistates as there are no players making runs. He then throws the ball to a player who pauses, looks around and gets ploughed to the floor. After this is repeated several times we revert to one out rugby. We waste so many tackles it's untrue. Tonight we got several penalties in the Wire half. We put daft, almost sidewards kicks in as if we wanted to start on their 20. Then we'd waste the first three tackles getting to their line.

Saints at the moment are 17 solid professionals playing off the cuff rugby, just as any 17 players assembled from the NRL and SL would do if you threw them into a game with no training as a team. Makes me wonder what exactly the players do all week in training.

He can't work miracles with rubbish if we are honest. The squad is pretty poor. I know some on here get carried away if we best one of the big four and predict we can win super league but I'm a realist and this squad is pretty poor.

In fact the squad is a mess. Not a single halfback in the squad. Only one omit and out experienced super league prop. Only one centre.

What do people expect a coach to do with no centre, stand off , scrum half and one/two props?

Re: Brown isn't good enough : Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:05 pm  

St pete wrote:

Very harsh to say he's not good enough after one injury hit season. Brown is dealing with the mistakes made by previous coaches.

He's come to a team with no halfbacks, we've had backrows, fullbacks, centres playing in the halves which IMO is impossible to challenge for anything with that situation.

He's also come to a squad with a prop problem. We got very very lucky that walmsley stood up so early as Perry is a complete waste of space. Laffranchi isn't a prop as long as his lives. Clough isn't good enough at all. So basically we had Lms as our only out and out decent prop.

The centre is another problem, he came to a club that has played 5 seasons with only one centre. I find this utterly shocking for a supposedly big club to have only one out and out centre on the books!

The injuries to key players hasn't helped at all either. We've had Roby, sia and lomax (our best 3 players) out for large periods of the season. Wouldn't be surprised if they have played only half the season.

We've also give a lot of young lads debuts this year due to injuries which isn't ideal. It's much easier bringing them in gradually in a experienced team playing well.

I'd much rather give my verdict on Brown next September. Next season will be more of his team with a halfback he wanted. He can only bring in what mcamus will allow. It's clear he knows we've got halfback and prop problems and he's trying to sort that mess he was left with.

I still have faith in Brown but anyone who thinks he can change it around in one season must be mad. This IMO is at least a 3 year Job to turn us into cup winners again unless he can splash the cash like Wigan and Salford.

Fair enough, I agree with a lot of that. But wouldn't you expect to see some sort of progress by now? Although we've added Walsh, it's a marginal improvement given the backs are weaker due to Meli departing and Masoe for TP unlikely to be a significant improvement, if one at all.

Re: Brown isn't good enough : Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:07 pm  

St pete wrote:

What do people expect a coach to do with no centre, stand off , scrum half and one/two props?

A good coach in that situation would always stand on the touchline, wear cool shades and fist pump when we do play well.