"Things can only get better" : Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:12 am  

After going to the game on Saturday with real hope we could get at least one trophy out of the two major ones on offer this season I came home worried about the season ahead and how much we have declined over the last 12 months and I will give my reasons for this below.

Remember in 04/05 when Wigan lost Farrell, O'Connor, Cassidy, Lam etc Wigan really struggled and where on the verge of the unthinkable (relegation) until Noble took the reigns from Millward and they got progessively better and won the Grand Final 2010. We have lost Cunningham, Long and Sculthorpe who on there day where the 3 top players in Super League and when they where on fire we where just about unbeatable. The great thing about losing them 3 players we allways punched above our weight and made more Grand Final trips despite not winning them. Now I am starting to get a real feeling and this started around 12 months ago when Royce Simmons was sacked that things have caught up with us and its come to a halt. Saturday was without question the worst performance I have ever witnessed by any St Helens side and I was disgusted by the lack of passion. We just gave up instead of meeting fire with fire.

Josh Perry we can all admit has been a very poor signing since his arrival in 2011 with a big reputation. Anthony Laffranchi is never a front row forward. He looks fine against the weaker sides in SL but when he comes up against a big pack he is found wanting. Jon Wilkin has been in decline since around 2006/2007 and to be honest he only looks good when in a World Class side like he was in 2006. I questioned the signing of Willie Manu as I felt a player of his age is the wrong route to go down and Im not gunna completley right him off after one game but he needs to reign in these constant offloads and get back to basics just solid hardwork.

When we signed up Nathan Brown I wanted us to recruit a specialist half back who could guide the team around. Lomax/Hohaia or Gaskell are not off that mould and I do believe even if the pack do sort themselves out we wont convert possession into points in the big games.

We do have major problems that need sorting out and fast. If I was Keiron Cunningham the pack of forwards need a huge rollocking and told in no uncertain terms that sort of performance will not be tolerated by a Saints pack. The blame can only be blamed on the pack in my personal opinion.

Re: "Things can only get better" : Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:23 am  

I was totally gobsmacked at that game just could not comprehend what i was seeing, wow something sure as hell needs sorting.

Re: "Things can only get better" : Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:40 am  

Things need to change and fast. As I said in my orginal post KC needs to rollock the forward pack. They where a complete shambles from start to finish. If they can get some fire in there bellies it will give Gaskell and Lomax half a chance.

Team for Widnes (a)

Wellens
Makinson
Turner
Jones
Meli
Gaskell
Lomax
Perry
Roby
Puletua
Manu
Soliola
Laffranchi

Bench

Hohaia
Flanagan
McCarthy-Scarsbrook
Greenwood

Re: "Things can only get better" : Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:13 am  

foz_13 wrote:

Things need to change and fast. As I said in my orginal post KC needs to rollock the forward pack. They where a complete shambles from start to finish. If they can get some fire in there bellies it will give Gaskell and Lomax half a chance.

Team for Widnes (a)

Wellens
Makinson
Turner
Jones
Meli
Gaskell
Lomax
Perry
Roby
Puletua
Manu
Soliola
Laffranchi

Bench

Hohaia
Flanagan
McCarthy-Scarsbrook
Greenwood

You would drop Wilkin (possibly one of the least crap players on the field on Saturday in comparison to the rest) and stick with Perry?? Also, not sure about Gaskell and Lomax together as neither of them has leadership or organisational skills in the halves but would be happy to give them a couple more games before changing it around. Think I would be tempted to go with:

Wellens
Makinson
Turner
Meli
Gardner
Gaskell
Lomax
LMS
Roby
Laffranchi
Soliola
Manu
Wilkin

Hohaia
TP
Flanagan
Walmsley

Re: "Things can only get better" : Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:39 am  

wakey_saint wrote:

You would drop Wilkin

I can understand why someone would drop wilkin after last week. He gives up too much in terms of physicallity.
Its no use having a skilfull back row when you can't drive your way past your own 20 metre line.

However, Friday's problem was about attitude, and Wilkin has no problems there imo.

Re: "Things can only get better" : Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:46 am  

I normally stick up for Wilkin, but he stood out to me as one of our worst on Saturday. He always seemed to be on the verge of conceding a penalty, and that miss on Lunt from the scrum base was cringeworthy. Flanagan, by contrast, was direct and got on with the job - I'd consider giving him the start and putting Wilkin on the bench.

Re: "Things can only get better" : Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:00 am  

Dux wrote:

I normally stick up for Wilkin, but he stood out to me as one of our worst on Saturday. He always seemed to be on the verge of conceding a penalty, and that miss on Lunt from the scrum base was cringeworthy. Flanagan, by contrast, was direct and got on with the job - I'd consider giving him the start and putting Wilkin on the bench.

I stated in the off season that I'd be trying to offload Wilkin.
He has a number of skills, but really the most important to us is his tackle count. I feel Flash is capable of matching that, from what I know about his times at other clubs. He's also a lot more physical, which was a problem for us against Hudds. Given the wage I would presume Wilkin gets, I don't think he's worth it in a salary capped game.

I'd forgotten that it was his miss on Lunt from the scrum. That was possibly the worst part of the night for me.

Re: "Things can only get better" : Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:05 am  

Wilkin was poor, but there were far worse. If all our pack adopted his attitude we certainly wouldn't have seen that scoreline IMO

Re: "Things can only get better" : Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:09 pm  

Dux wrote:

I normally stick up for Wilkin, but he stood out to me as one of our worst on Saturday. He always seemed to be on the verge of conceding a penalty, and that miss on Lunt from the scrum base was cringeworthy. Flanagan, by contrast, was direct and got on with the job - I'd consider giving him the start and putting Wilkin on the bench.

I agree, Flanagan at least showed a bit of fight. Wilkin had a bad game, but he was by no means the only one. I'd be tempted to bring Greenwood and/or Walmsley for Perry, to give him a kick up the booty and remind him he isn't a guaranteed starter.

Re: "Things can only get better" : Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:28 pm  

wakey_saint wrote:

You would drop Wilkin (possibly one of the least crap players on the field on Saturday in comparison to the rest) and stick with Perry??

Yes I would drop Wilkin and put Laffranchi at 13. Correct me if Im mistaken but when Laffranchi was playing in the NRL he was a first rate back rower?? Its about time we started playing players in there correct positions and especially where the front row is concerned as its a crucial position. How many times can you honestly tell me Laffranchi got on top of a phyiscal pack last year playing in the front row?

Wilkin has been hit and miss for a number of seasons now and needs dropping. I agree with most people that his defence is very good other facets of his game have declined beyond belief and he is still considered a automatic pick. Manu and Soliola starting in the Second Row and Laffranchi at Loose would be a better backrow with Flanagan on the bench.....