Are we the new Wire? : Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:10 pm  

Posted this on redvee, but thought i'd also post it here to get different peoples point of view.

Just thought i'd post this to maybe get a few other peoples opinions on this.

Are we now the Superleagues nearly men? We can beat most teams in the league (except for a few mediocre performances), but we aren't coming up to scratch against teams like Wigan, Warrington, and now Huddersfield.

So with the loss of a few key players have we replaced Warrington as the team that can on its day perform well, but struggles to mix it with the big boys?

If the new signings we get in the close season for next season aren't up to scratch I can see us being out of it for a good few seasons.

Any opinions?

Re: Are we the new Wire? : Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:11 pm  

yes,

but hang on a minute, it will all come good once you dont have to play in Widnes...

Re: Are we the new Wire? : Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:26 pm  

We've have indeed lost out narrowly to Wigan twice and been well beaten once. We lost to Wire in the midst of Eastmondgate with the squad in a bit of disarray. We lost to Hudds with half a team.

The last couple of games against the pies we've had 5 or 6 missing that would be in the first choice 17. Perry/Clough/Moore in particular would have added a lot to our beaten pack at the weekend and young Makinson made the sort of errors that Ade hadn't made all season.

Leon Pryce is arguably our best player (he certainly was for large sections of last season) and has barely played all year.

I'm far from giving up the season - we came across a team that played good, conservative rugby with a strong kicking game in filthy conditions and we weren't up to matching it, but all is not lost by any means. If we beat Wire at the weekend I'm sure the players will all be world beaters again in the eyes of the post-derby pessimists.

Personally, I think we look in very good shape indeed going into the new stadium next season, and not too shabby for the rest of this season.

Re: Are we the new Wire? : Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:32 pm  

It's an interesting time for the club. I think we've somehow managed to hang onto the coat tails of the good teams during our transition phase. We've not done what Bradford and Wigan did and fallen so far from our perch that it would take years to recover from, but I think the rebuilding work that has been done has been very average. Far too much reliance on overhyped young players who are never going to turn us into a champion side again. Playing at Widnes and not having Leon Pryce hasn't helped, but then again it's not looking like we'll have him next season either.

To realistically be challenging next season we need a fullback, a winger, a centre, two props and a back rower. We aren't going to sign any of them I don't think. Although we're battled valliantly against the injuries this season, it's only highlighted just how weak our squad is. We've not managed to put out a strong bench all season. There aren't enough senior players at the club and it will only get worse next season as our one man pack is gone. Replace his robotic 150m and 30 tackles stint with a prop who'll do 50m and 15 tackles like most do and it's not hard to see us slipping another couple of places down the league.

I think we need to look at Wigan as a guide to how we should move forward. Individually they are not a great side. Bar Tomkins there really isn't a great deal of show stopping individual quality, Warrington and Huddersfield have far more of that. But they are a great team, 110% aggression and effort and tactical discipline. We've always gone for classy play and trying to out attack the opposition, but modern day rugby league and the salary cap have left that as an impossible task and we just dont have the quality anymore. As of next season the only really 5* players we will have will be Roby and possibly Laffranchi if he adapts well. Gone are the days of us having 8 or 9 star players.

It's a bit of a worry as to who makes the squad development decisions at Saints. Whoever it is isn't doing a great job. The youth system is also a big problem, it's producing talented enough players, but they're all sparrow legged runts. Look at Charnley as an example of the average Wigan player. His arms are the size of our junior back rower's legs. The days of us getting to finals every year are gone IMO, I just hope the lean period doesn't turn into a Warrington-esque lean period.

Re: Are we the new Wire? : Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:39 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

It's an interesting time for the club. I think we've somehow managed to hang onto the coat tails of the good teams during our transition phase. We've not done what Bradford and Wigan did and fallen so far from our perch that it would take years to recover from, but I think the rebuilding work that has been done has been very average. Far too much reliance on overhyped young players who are never going to turn us into a champion side again. Playing at Widnes and not having Leon Pryce hasn't helped, but then again it's not looking like we'll have him next season either.

To realistically be challenging next season we need a fullback, a winger, a centre, two props and a back rower. We aren't going to sign any of them I don't think. Although we're battled valliantly against the injuries this season, it's only highlighted just how weak our squad is. We've not managed to put out a strong bench all season. There aren't enough senior players at the club and it will only get worse next season as our one man pack is gone. Replace his robotic 150m and 30 tackles stint with a prop who'll do 50m and 15 tackles like most do and it's not hard to see us slipping another couple of places down the league.

I think we need to look at Wigan as a guide to how we should move forward. Individually they are not a great side. Bar Tomkins there really isn't a great deal of show stopping individual quality, Warrington and Huddersfield have far more of that. But they are a great team, 110% aggression and effort and tactical discipline. We've always gone for classy play and trying to out attack the opposition, but modern day rugby league and the salary cap have left that as an impossible task and we just dont have the quality anymore. As of next season the only really 5* players we will have will be Roby and possibly Laffranchi if he adapts well. Gone are the days of us having 8 or 9 star players.

It's a bit of a worry as to who makes the squad development decisions at Saints. Whoever it is isn't doing a great job. The youth system is also a big problem, it's producing talented enough players, but they're all sparrow legged runts. Look at Charnley as an example of the average Wigan player. His arms are the size of our junior back rower's legs. The days of us getting to finals every year are gone IMO, I just hope the lean period doesn't turn into a Warrington-esque lean period.

Saddened in negative-post shock!!!

Re: Are we the new Wire? : Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:44 pm  

For me the answer is a definite NO.

We've had to encounter a lot of instability this year with a neutral ground, injuries etc. If we are the new Wire we would get beat 80-0 this Friday and would have been beaten 75-0 by Wigan last Friday.

I think Superleague is mediorce this season, with all the strife we have had this season we are still only 2 wins off top spot. Saints 2005/2006 would wipe the floor with these existing Wigan, Wire and Huddersfield teams. These 3 teams have gradually improved where Leeds and Saints in transition have dropped back. I think next season there is 10 players around the 30 years mark at Warrington, so although they have had a reasonable 2 good seasons they could go in decline whilst Saints future could be upwards where they belong.

Re: Are we the new Wire? : Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:48 pm  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

Saddened in negative-post shock!!!

It's all right though isn't it?

Re: Are we the new Wire? : Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:44 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

It's all right though isn't it?

Anybody who doesn't think TP is a "star" player is clearly wrong, especially if he thinks Laffranchi is better.

Re: Are we the new Wire? : Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:44 pm  

Double post

Re: Are we the new Wire? : Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:47 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

Anybody who doesn't think TP is a "star" player is clearly wrong, especially if he thinks Laffranchi is better.

Alright I guess he is. So Laffranchi isn't better than TP then? I read in the Aussie press about how Laffranchi was one of the NRL's top 5 back row forwards when he signed for Saints.