Not bad - Seriously : Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:09 pm  

I thought we did okay tonight. All this talk of people being 'pwned', us being 'raped like an under 7s side in the Bronx' and every second player taking the mick out of the club is way off.

I drove to the game and it certainly didn't feel like a proper match. The game on and off the field had the atmosphere and intensity of a friendly between Barrow and Bramley. Very quiet off the field and as a game it was completely lacking. No intensity at all, no real quality on show and were it not Saints v Wire and their fans getting excited about finally beating us it would have been one of the most drab, boring games I've seen as a Saints fan. A typical early doors defeat at home. We get them most seasons, but normally they are to Quins or Wakefield or Hull and not Warrington.

Credit to the Wire, superb defensively in the first half, although we didn't try much to make it hard for them. They took their opportunities but I don't think Tony Smith will be too excited about their performance, they will play a lot better than they did tonight this season and lose. First half we had so much territory we should have been at least level. The worrying thing in the post-Cunningham era is that we didn't even threaten their line. It was all one out rugby, one pass and a drive and someone held on their back over the line very often. No clever kicks, no dummy runners, no planned moves, no offloads. All very predictable and monotonous.

Bar Gaskell I don't think there was anyone we could single out as having a bad game. Even Eastmond, flavour of the month in the scapegoat stakes didn't do anything wrong, we just didn't involve him, the ball went to Gaskell all too often and the only ball he didn't drop tonight was the one on the floor he dropped on to score. I thought the pack played well, we had enough territory to win the game. I thought Wilkin, Roby and LMS did a good job in particular, the usual suspects. Wello was his usual self, a week late to every ball and about as threatening with the ball in hand as an angry hamster to a 747.

Strange game in all. Wire deserved their win, but I wonder if any of their fans feel it was a tad anti-climactic? Boring game, no real quality, no good moves from either side, no excitement? We'll be okay this season, the squad depth isn't sufficient for us to win any trophies unless we get a ridiculously favourable Cup draw, but if we can get Leon back out there to lead them a comfortable play off spot and a season of rebuilding with a respectible finish is what we should be aiming for. We have no 'greats' in the side now like we used to have so it's back to normality after so many years around the trophies and finals I feel. Hopefully with the new stadium in place the signings from now on can be ambitious and they can replace Jammer and Kyle with players good enough to build a squad around.

Re: Not bad - Seriously : Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:16 pm  

You make some good points but the only reason Gaskell got the ball so much was because Kyle was stood 5 yards behind play trying his best not to get injured.

As for Gaskell he did make some booboo's but he worked his socks off in attack and defence and he showed promising moments.

Agree with you on the friendly type feeling - Widnes just doesnt feel 'right'

Re: Not bad - Seriously : Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:22 pm  

No1 Saint wrote:

You make some good points but the only reason Gaskell got the ball so much was because Kyle was stood 5 yards behind play trying his best not to get injured.

That is harsh I feel, we simply don't know what Kyle is being told to do. If he were doing what you say, would the likes of Jammer, Wello etc let him do that? Would Royce even play him? If he's made his mind up, and I don't believe for one second that the club don't know his decision, he shouldn't be playing at all IMO.

Royce said before the Wigan that they'd spent the entire off season training with Gaskell and Leon at 6 and 7. Then Leon goes and gets injured and Kyle is thrown in, presumably with very little preparation. It's not Kyle's fault there were no runners, no dummy runners and no one bolting through for a kick. There was no movement at all going forward, they just approach the line in a line and went one out so often.

Re: Not bad - Seriously : Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:27 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

That is harsh I feel, we simply don't know what Kyle is being told to do. If he were doing what you say, would the likes of Jammer, Wello etc let him do that? Would Royce even play him? If he's made his mind up, and I don't believe for one second that the club don't know his decision, he shouldn't be playing at all IMO.

Royce said before the Wigan that they'd spent the entire off season training with Gaskell and Leon at 6 and 7. Then Leon goes and gets injured and Kyle is thrown in, presumably with very little preparation. It's not Kyle's fault there were no runners, no dummy runners and no one bolting through for a kick. There was no movement at all going forward, they just approach the line in a line and went one out so often.

Part of a scrum halves job is to bark out the orders to set up the plays.
If the scrum half is just saying you have it, then there is not much the other players can do.
Scrum halves also need to attack the line, as that causes defensive indecision. Kyle never did that at all. Whether its mental of physical he is not currently at the races.

As for Gaskell I thought he had an half decent first half, but tired bit and then dropped a pas or two in the pouring rain.

Re: Not bad - Seriously : Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:29 pm  

To be honest I never thought that Warrington was worth the 24-0 score. There pack did give ours a beating but we had enough time and the Warrington line to convert in to points.

I think our defence needs to go up a gear but it's our attack that worries me. Against Wigan we looked like we had no idea and tonight was even worse. The Main problem is playing two young inexperienced lads at halfbacks.

Our kicking game is terrible.

Not many positives but I don't think we are to far off.

Re: Not bad - Seriously : Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:32 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

As for Gaskell I thought he had an half decent first half, but tired bit and then dropped a pas or two in the pouring rain.

I'm not being critical of Gaskell, he looks a prospect, but it's too early in his development to have him paired with another relatively inexperienced player in Kyle. If Leon isn't there to play with Gaskell I think they would be better going with Wilkin against the big teams. It could do a lot of harm to Gaskell's confidence if they leave him to suffer like that all season.

Re: Not bad - Seriously : Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:34 pm  

St pete wrote:

There pack did give ours a beating but we had enough time and the Warrington line to convert in to points.

That is wrong. If their pack had given us this mythical beating we wouldn't have spent much of the first half camped in their 20m area. I was sat on the Wire 20m mark in the first half and spent almost all that half looking left towards the Saints fans, which shows how much we were down there.

Wire did well in the spell just after half time but I'd hardly say they dominated our pack given that they scored off just about every possession they had in our 10m area and only ended up with 25 points.

Re: Not bad - Seriously : Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:38 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

I'm not being critical of Gaskell, he looks a prospect, but it's too early in his development to have him paired with another relatively inexperienced player in Kyle. If Leon isn't there to play with Gaskell I think they would be better going with Wilkin against the big teams. It could do a lot of harm to Gaskell's confidence if they leave him to suffer like that all season.

I said the same thing during the week and got shot down by few on here. Tonight wilkin should have played stand off!!!!

Nothing against gaskel but Kyle needs someone to take the pressure off him and wilkin is best we've got at the moment.

God knows why eastmond has changed his game, he no longer takes the line on. Maybe Royce tells him not to or his heads all over the place but unless he takes the line on like he used to then he'll be nothing but a average scrumhalf.

Re: Not bad - Seriously : Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:42 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

That is wrong. If their pack had given us this mythical beating we wouldn't have spent much of the first half camped in their 20m area. I was sat on the Wire 20m mark in the first half and spent almost all that half looking left towards the Saints fans, which shows how much we were down there.

Wire did well in the spell just after half time but I'd hardly say they dominated our pack given that they scored off just about every possession they had in our 10m area and only ended up with 25 points.

The spell before halftime when we was camped on the Warrington line was due to penalties and repeat sets from drop outs.

To be fair to Warrington, there pack was on top most of the game and they really give it to us in the tackle.

Re: Not bad - Seriously : Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:42 pm  

St pete wrote:

To be honest I never thought that Warrington was worth the 24-0 score. There pack did give ours a beating but we had enough time and the Warrington line to convert in to points.

Now this is a little confusing, in the past as you know we have also had enough time on the saints line to convert that territory into points but we have failed on numerous occasions.

Now the media and your own fans put the above down to great Saints try line defence, so basically when the opposition does the same to you they are not worthy, its all down to Saints short comings in front of the try line and nothing to do with how good the opposition have improved in a game against Saints at defending their own line.