Leeds to fight the case re image rites : Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:28 pm  

About half way down page 15, posted by The Clan. http://forums.rlfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=478967&start=210 Apparently this was divulged at the Wakefield EGM on Tuesday.

About half way down page 15, posted by The Clan. http://forums.rlfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=478967&start=210 Apparently this was divulged at the Wakefield EGM on Tuesday.

Re: Leeds to fight the case re image rites : Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:29 pm  

A bit more here. http://www.frontrowlegal.com/blogs/blog/the-big-freeze-how-hm-treasury%E2%80%99s-freeze-on-ebts-efrbs-will-leave-overseas-players-skating-on-thin-ice/ "This legislation is not just an accounting exercise; it will have deep seated repercussions that will change the landscape of English sport, including Rugby Union, Rugby League and Football, which are notorious for attracting overseas players. The English tax system is already unfavourable compared with France and Spain the Government, in closing what they perceive as another loophole has effectively blocked off overseas players from forging English careers as it simply will not be worth their while. Whilst image rights remain legal, HMRC have narrowed their scope in Rugby Union limiting the amount that can be paid as image rights to 15% to all past and present international players and 10% to any player that has attained junior/B or representative status. Exceptional players and coaches can make a specific case for a higher percentage capped at 25%, although clubs may be hesitant to make such a case as they do not want to be put under the microscope. Rather than being seen as a tax efficient method for players and clubs, HMRC are viewing image rights as devices to avoid PAYE and NIC obligations and are trying to impose tighter controls on such measures. The status of image rights in Rugby League remains uncertain with the limit yet to be determined. Clubs which were advised to transfer image rights to pensions will now have further headaches on how to treat contractual salary sacrifice arrangements. With the death of EBTs, EFRBS and restricted use of image right schemes, the prospect of playing for England clubs will undoubtedly be less attractive for overseas players especially given the weak pound against overseas currencies."

A bit more here. http://www.frontrowlegal.com/blogs/blog/the-big-freeze-how-hm-treasury%E2%80%99s-freeze-on-ebts-efrbs-will-leave-overseas-players-skating-on-thin-ice/ "This legislation is not just an accounting exercise; it will have deep seated repercussions that will change the landscape of English sport, including Rugby Union, Rugby League and Football, which are notorious for attracting overseas players. The English tax system is already unfavourable compared with France and Spain the Government, in closing what they perceive as another loophole has effectively blocked off overseas players from forging English careers as it simply will not be worth their while. Whilst image rights remain legal, HMRC have narrowed their scope in Rugby Union limiting the amount that can be paid as image rights to 15% to all past and present international players and 10% to any player that has attained junior/B or representative status. Exceptional players and coaches can make a specific case for a higher percentage capped at 25%, although clubs may be hesitant to make such a case as they do not want to be put under the microscope. Rather than being seen as a tax efficient method for players and clubs, HMRC are viewing image rights as devices to avoid PAYE and NIC obligations and are trying to impose tighter controls on such measures. The status of image rights in Rugby League remains uncertain with the limit yet to be determined. Clubs which were advised to transfer image rights to pensions will now have further headaches on how to treat contractual salary sacrifice arrangements. With the death of EBTs, EFRBS and restricted use of image right schemes, the prospect of playing for England clubs will undoubtedly be less attractive for overseas players especially given the weak pound against overseas currencies."

Re: Leeds to fight the case re image rites : Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:38 pm  

I think similar percentages were used in the football cases, so I can't see it being much different in RL.

They are a tax avoidance measure, why would any sports person be paid more than 25% of their salary for their image? Especially those no mark players that make up most squads, those that only family members get their names on shirts?

Re: Leeds to fight the case re image rites : Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:21 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

With the death of EBTs, EFRBS and restricted use of image right schemes, the prospect of playing for England clubs will undoubtedly be less attractive for overseas players especially given the weak pound against overseas currencies."

Good

Re: Leeds to fight the case re image rites : Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:44 pm  

I posted a similar thing on the Leeds site and it's got some excellent, informative responces. http://forums.rlfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=479080 Obviously a few posters on there with far more knowledge of these things than I have. Nothing new there then, just to beat you Saints fans from saying it. But seriously, from Inflatable_Armadillos posts it could have big implications for many of our clubs, if HMRC go for the retrospective approach. I'm sure BL is more up to date than I (a poor pensioner) will ever be.

I posted a similar thing on the Leeds site and it's got some excellent, informative responces. http://forums.rlfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=479080 Obviously a few posters on there with far more knowledge of these things than I have. Nothing new there then, just to beat you Saints fans from saying it. But seriously, from Inflatable_Armadillos posts it could have big implications for many of our clubs, if HMRC go for the retrospective approach. I'm sure BL is more up to date than I (a poor pensioner) will ever be.

Re: Leeds to fight the case re image rites : Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:30 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote: I posted a similar thing on the Leeds site and it's got some excellent, informative responces. http://forums.rlfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=479080 Obviously a few posters on there with far more knowledge of these things than I have. Nothing new there then, just to beat you Saints fans from saying it. But seriously, from Inflatable_Armadillos posts it could have big implications for many of our clubs, if HMRC go for the retrospective approach. I'm sure BL is more up to date than I (a poor pensioner) will ever be. As Mr Cameron said "we are all in it together" If Wakefield go, we will all perish. It is a dire situation for SL clubs, if a fine upstanding individual like Tiger Woods loses millions in sponsorship, how are the ignorant peasants from the M62 corridior going to survive.

Rogues Gallery wrote: I posted a similar thing on the Leeds site and it's got some excellent, informative responces. http://forums.rlfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=479080 Obviously a few posters on there with far more knowledge of these things than I have. Nothing new there then, just to beat you Saints fans from saying it. But seriously, from Inflatable_Armadillos posts it could have big implications for many of our clubs, if HMRC go for the retrospective approach. I'm sure BL is more up to date than I (a poor pensioner) will ever be. As Mr Cameron said "we are all in it together" If Wakefield go, we will all perish. It is a dire situation for SL clubs, if a fine upstanding individual like Tiger Woods loses millions in sponsorship, how are the ignorant peasants from the M62 corridior going to survive.

Re: Leeds to fight the case re image rites : Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:52 am  

Benidorm John wrote:

As Mr Cameron said "we are all in it together" If Wakefield go, we will all perish.
It is a dire situation for SL clubs, if a fine upstanding individual like Tiger Woods loses millions in sponsorship, how are the ignorant peasants from the M62 corridior going to survive.

It's going to be interesting. I would imagine Leeds (RLs) argument will be that the company that runs BOTH Leeds Tykes and Leeds Rhinos should be treated the same as far as image rights taxation are concerned. That would be 15% max for full International players and 10% for junior International players (that's how I read it)

Even so, if HMRC go for a retrospective claw back of what's already been paid out, it may cost the clubs a lot of money (£2 million has been mentioned for Leeds Rhinos).
Then you have the players themselves, they could be issued big tax demands.

I don't know when the hearing is but I guess there will be some very worried players/clubs at the moment, and it does make me wonder if it's one of the reasons a few overseas players have returned home.

Re: Leeds to fight the case re image rites : Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:30 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote: I posted a similar thing on the Leeds site and it's got some excellent, informative responces. http://forums.rlfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=479080 Obviously a few posters on there with far more knowledge of these things than I have. Nothing new there then, just to beat you Saints fans from saying it. But seriously, from Inflatable_Armadillos posts it could have big implications for many of our clubs, if HMRC go for the retrospective approach. I'm sure BL is more up to date than I (a poor pensioner) will ever be. I'm no expert, only going off things I've read. HMRC can only go back 4/6 years unless it's fraudulent, whether they'd really want to push for that I don't know, I'd presume it would be very difficult to prove fraud, I'd have thought the fact that they'd brokered a deal with RU would go against that. The argument that there is no value in image rights of RL players to me is a poor one, it'll be one of the reasons Saints suddenly produced t shirts for Lyon, Sculthorpe and the rest a few years back. Players are used for advertising, merchandise, etc. As he says, whilst they may not have a national profile, they aren't paid or are used in that way. Of course if the judge is a massive RU fan with a hatred of RL, the facts of the case could be a moot point...

Rogues Gallery wrote: I posted a similar thing on the Leeds site and it's got some excellent, informative responces. http://forums.rlfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=479080 Obviously a few posters on there with far more knowledge of these things than I have. Nothing new there then, just to beat you Saints fans from saying it. But seriously, from Inflatable_Armadillos posts it could have big implications for many of our clubs, if HMRC go for the retrospective approach. I'm sure BL is more up to date than I (a poor pensioner) will ever be. I'm no expert, only going off things I've read. HMRC can only go back 4/6 years unless it's fraudulent, whether they'd really want to push for that I don't know, I'd presume it would be very difficult to prove fraud, I'd have thought the fact that they'd brokered a deal with RU would go against that. The argument that there is no value in image rights of RL players to me is a poor one, it'll be one of the reasons Saints suddenly produced t shirts for Lyon, Sculthorpe and the rest a few years back. Players are used for advertising, merchandise, etc. As he says, whilst they may not have a national profile, they aren't paid or are used in that way. Of course if the judge is a massive RU fan with a hatred of RL, the facts of the case could be a moot point...

Re: Leeds to fight the case re image rites : Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:44 pm  

But will the fact that RL won team SPOTY over RU, Golf, football, etc?
I read it as which code is wider recognised.