Re: 19 man Squad v Salford : Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:58 am  

Decided to sleep it off before coming on here to calm down a bit!

Starting with the coach, he obviously got last night's team selection horribly wrong. He seems hell bent on his Turner at 6 experiment working, when it clearly isn't. McManus cannot be happy after spending so much money on Burns and Fages and they're not getting a game at 6 because of Turner. Playing Knowles at 9 was completely bizzare. I felt sorry for the lad. He wasn't great but it wasn't his fault. A young back rower with no experience put into the team in one of the most important positions, unbelievable. Charnock hasn't looked amazing but he's done a steady job at 9 when called upon and tonight was a perfect time to get him more game time.

Ridiculous team selection aside, KC cannot take all the blame for last night. The minimum paying fans want, or rightly demand should I say, when they go to the game is the right attitude and effort. Even with KC's astounding 17, you line up both 17's and tell me we shouldn't be winning that game. If the players turn up with the right attitude we win last night for me. They have badly let the fans down who turned up and, Walmsley aside, have produced one of the worst performances in recent St.Helens history. Many will blame Owens but I almost felt sorry for him last night. The lad had a shocker and hopefully he can forget about it soon enough. He's not great but 3rd choice fullbacks rarely are.

Where does the team go from here? KC said he isn't afraid to wield the axe but we all know by now that he is. You cant blame Masoe or Travis Burns for last night. Whatever you think of Burns, he is a fighter and the type of character we needed last night. His treatment of Greenwood is bizzare. Granted he went backwards last year towards the end but Greg Richards has been on a consistent downwards spiral since the 2014 Grand Final.

With it looking like no Roby or Percival for Roosters and then a trip to KR after that, I can see a big Eamon McManus motivating statement (again) and a Jon Wilkin interview making bold statements in the near future.

Re: 19 man Squad v Salford : Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:12 am  

Top and bottom of it is you have the personnel on the field, the problem is not there, the big problem is KC is not a good coach, and never will be. END OF!

Re: 19 man Squad v Salford : Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:26 am  

St pete wrote:

Cas are decent team and Salford are poor.

Hi St Pete, really think your comment is really unfair on Salford, and wrong. Salford may have been poor for a few years by SL standards, but that was then and this is now. Everyone could see last night they were far from poor and as the majority of Saints fans on here and the rest of the viewing public could see, ironically, it was actually Saints who were at times worse than poor.

Salford played a Red Hot Hull FC last week, and despite the scoreline they played pretty well with the ball in hand, very few mistakes, made good metres and in the last 20 mins they carried on with that and made some points. The difference was that defensively they could not handle the size of the Hull Pack and got steam rollered. It happens sometimes when one team is running hot.
But to call Salford poor when Saints are on the end of a huge defeat, a poor performance and a huge attitude issue on the field is pretty remarkable.

Saints are a good side and will bounce back I'm sure. But to diss Salford in their vanguard moment is bordering on arrogance and i don't usually associate that with St Helens or their fans.

Re: 19 man Squad v Salford : Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:44 am  

IANmarra wrote:

Well here we are again, a new season, more complaints.... It's what we do as fans Massively regret waking up at 4am for that utter rubbish.

So it seems nothing has changed from last season?

Outrageous coaching, outrageous team selection and just out-right outrageous pathetic performances from certain players!

I know it’s been mentioned but Turner in the halves, when you have Fages on the bench and Burns fit is just stupid. But the worst of all, Turner playing in the halves means LMS in the centres?! I mean LMS wouldn’t even get in my team let alone a place out of position. He poses no threat in the centres and is quite frankly awful…I’d say marginally better in the forwards too. I’d rather not talk about him much more as it frustrates me. A Wakefield player at best.

Fages comes on in the second half and we move Turner back to centre and LMS to SR or LF, this makes no sense at all? Disrupting the team at the pivotal players is asking for disaster.

One thing that annoyed me was Lui’s first try. Thompson, f**king Thompson, a prop forward, defending in the back line from a scrum! Against any half back, or even a back with a bit of pace, must be a dream for them. That's too easy for a fast player vs a forward. Yes Wilkin made poor read but that’s just a simple one on one….a back would obviously get there and make the tackle. This is down to the coaching, why is he there? Wilkin and Thompson should be in the scrum? People will argue they are the better defenders, and yes maybe….when in the middle of the park and you have your defenders close to you. From a scrum, just no…. Christ, I’d fancy myself one on one with Thompson. Shocking, shocking coaching.

Jack Owens, as people have said, not up to Saints standard. Is that 3 games on the bounce he’s dropped a high ball and we’ve conceded a try? Offers nothing in attack, poor organization and as the last line of defense we have no hope. People saying he’s a winger…. So swap him with Makinson or even Swift? Very poor.

Lama Tasi….I mean come on….need I say more, pansy.

Vea was disappointing too. What’s up with Greenwood?

Ok the final point, and one which drives me absolutely crazy, literally to boiling point……is our kick offs! It is the same kick off every time!?! I understand maybe the first 2 are the same, long and deep to the ideal side of our best defenders, no problem. Concede again, same kick off….NO, just NO! If you go 2 tries down, for me you try a short kick off (if I was coaching I would do a short one at every opportunity), at least you try a different side, or maybe a hard drill along the floor, or to the oppositions weaker catches. One thing you don’t do is kick it to their BEST ball player, so he can then pass it to their BEST forward, to drive it right back at us. For me, these are little plays that can change games, you win the ball back after conceding a try and you’re in their half attacking right back at them! This will be down to the coaching but also the players, it doesn’t need to coach to say do a short kick off, its common sense when the chips are down and you need the loving ball, you do it, or do something different! Then, last night…. to my absolute astonishment, we did a short kick off! YES! FINALLY!
….79 mins, 44-10 points down. Is that a f*ckin joke, IS THAT A F**KING JOKE?! P*ss off Saints, P*SS RIGHT OFF!

Shocking performance. Nothing positive to come out of it whatsoever. The game VS Roosters on Friday will be worse than last years World Club Challenge. If it’s not, I’ll be absolutely amazed….

One things for sure – thank god Pearce f*cked that dog!!!

Hull FC lad here, brilliant post, totally from the heart, a lot of sense spoken and made me giggle a couple of times. I understand your pain. Best I've read for years.

Re: 19 man Squad v Salford : Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:48 am  

Starman wrote:

Decided to sleep it off before coming on here to calm down a bit!

Starting with the coach, he obviously got last night's team selection horribly wrong. He seems hell bent on his Turner at 6 experiment working, when it clearly isn't. McManus cannot be happy after spending so much money on Burns and Fages and they're not getting a game at 6 because of Turner. Playing Knowles at 9 was completely bizzare. I felt sorry for the lad. He wasn't great but it wasn't his fault. A young back rower with no experience put into the team in one of the most important positions, unbelievable. Charnock hasn't looked amazing but he's done a steady job at 9 when called upon and tonight was a perfect time to get him more game time.

Ridiculous team selection aside, KC cannot take all the blame for last night. The minimum paying fans want, or rightly demand should I say, when they go to the game is the right attitude and effort. Even with KC's astounding 17, you line up both 17's and tell me we shouldn't be winning that game. If the players turn up with the right attitude we win last night for me. They have badly let the fans down who turned up and, Walmsley aside, have produced one of the worst performances in recent St.Helens history. Many will blame Owens but I almost felt sorry for him last night. The lad had a shocker and hopefully he can forget about it soon enough. He's not great but 3rd choice fullbacks rarely are.

Where does the team go from here? KC said he isn't afraid to wield the axe but we all know by now that he is. You cant blame Masoe or Travis Burns for last night. Whatever you think of Burns, he is a fighter and the type of character we needed last night. His treatment of Greenwood is bizzare. Granted he went backwards last year towards the end but Greg Richards has been on a consistent downwards spiral since the 2014 Grand Final.

With it looking like no Roby or Percival for Roosters and then a trip to KR after that, I can see a big Eamon McManus motivating statement (again) and a Jon Wilkin interview making bold statements in the near future.

Not only that but he actually brought Fages on at hooker, moved Turner to centre, LMS to second Row and Wilkin to stand off. He only moved Fages to half when Percival went off. Moved LMS back to centre and Wilkin back in SR.

The bloke doesent have a clue and I want him out

Re: 19 man Squad v Salford : Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:01 am  

LFC Saint wrote:

Not only that but he actually brought Fages on at hooker, moved Turner to centre, LMS to second Row and Wilkin to stand off. He only moved Fages to half when Percival went off. Moved LMS back to centre and Wilkin back in SR.

The bloke doesent have a clue and I want him out

Fages should have started the game as a running 6, with Turner back to his role as a running centre, LMS has his better games at loose forward. It will probably take half a season to get there what the saints fans can see straight away., I think I read somewhere (KC quote) that Burns is destined for another experimental position, maybe the experiment is to try and win a game with all the players out of there natural positions.

Re: 19 man Squad v Salford : Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:13 am  

Uppo58 wrote:

Hi St Pete, really think your comment is really unfair on Salford, and wrong. Salford may have been poor for a few years by SL standards, but that was then and this is now. Everyone could see last night they were far from poor and as the majority of Saints fans on here and the rest of the viewing public could see, ironically, it was actually Saints who were at times worse than poor.

Salford played a Red Hot Hull FC last week, and despite the scoreline they played pretty well with the ball in hand, very few mistakes, made good metres and in the last 20 mins they carried on with that and made some points. The difference was that defensively they could not handle the size of the Hull Pack and got steam rollered. It happens sometimes when one team is running hot.
But to call Salford poor when Saints are on the end of a huge defeat, a poor performance and a huge attitude issue on the field is pretty remarkable.

Saints are a good side and will bounce back I'm sure. But to diss Salford in their vanguard moment is bordering on arrogance and i don't usually associate that with St Helens or their fans.

I wasn't dissing Salford. I can't say a bad word about the way you played last night and the score reflected the game.

I can't be bothered going into it all but it didn't mean to come across as the way it did .

Re: 19 man Squad v Salford : Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:31 am  

My two pence as a neutral looking in.

I think firstly your squad isn't as good as some of you think, and when I was looking at some of the predictions before the game and the way some were putting Salford down it surprised me a little, because they are not a bad side.

Owens, Vea, Tasi, Richards, Wilkin (these days), LMS. Imo none of them are good enough for the standard you want to be at. I dont rate Fages either tbh, but I have seldom seen him play behind a strong pack, so I'll give him botd. You also lack a bit of size in the backs. Makinson, Swift and Percival are all good players, but lightweight, there's no one there to come in and take work off the forwards with a strong carry. All the other good teams have at least one big combative back who makes yards, wins penalties and generally makes a nuisance of himself. That's something you lack imo.

Last night was primarily an attitude problem, but I do think your style is over reliant on Roby. He is probably the best player in the league, but last night it was as if you had no plan b for him not being there. It was like you expected a kid to make his debut, out of position, and play just like one of the best hookers in the world does. Instead you got slow service to a bunch of guys who seemed to be stood still most of the time.

It all seemed like a perfect storm. Complacency (maybe an eye on next week), no Roby, strange team selections, and, credit where its due, a Salford team that had a point to prove and played really well. I would imagine that will be the worst performance of your season, but all the same KC has to be on borrowed time, he is taking you alarmingly backwards.

Re: 19 man Squad v Salford : Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:44 am  

does Walsh only play half decent against us?

Re: 19 man Squad v Salford : Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:21 pm  

Reading through most Saints fans post it seems we only won because of how poorly Saints played?? Sounds very arrogant to me. We have the best coach in SL we have the best fitness coach and a very good young coach in Watson. We have also built a TEAM, we don't have the massive names but we have some players who will have big names come the end of this season, Rob Lui and Dobson would walk into the Saints team, as would Evalds, Murdoch-Masila, we have some very good players and I think a lot of people are underestimating this current squad. We also had 3 important players missing last night in Sau Vidot and Hauraki. We definitely need to kick on from last night but I can only see this squad getting better as the 9 new recruits all bed in. We smashed Wigan in a pre season friendly and a lot of people were arrogant about that mentioning how it wasn't a full strength wigan side, hopefully people will carry on underestimating us all season.