Re: Gaskell to Salford Howarth to Saints, swap deal : Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:22 am  

Saint Simon wrote:

Like the chief says some players are good enough at 18/19 but a lot need further development, particularly in the forwards. We have been graced with two freaks at hooker with kc and robes, kc at 18 was brilliant, as was robes. Hookers usually come of age about 25, such as lowes .

Roby was fortunate that he didnt have to do it alone , he was understudy to the King and so although he was playing first team he was still very much learning and developing

Re: Gaskell to Salford Howarth to Saints, swap deal : Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:25 am  

No1 Saint wrote:

Roby was fortunate that he didnt have to do it alone , he was understudy to the King and so although he was playing first team he was still very much learning and developing

Exactly, he was gently eased into the side, not thrown in at the deep end

Re: Gaskell to Salford Howarth to Saints, swap deal : Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:41 am  

Saint Simon wrote:

Exactly, he was gently eased into the side, not thrown in at the deep end

Jones wasn't eased in last season. So why assume Speakman needs easing in this season?

Re: Gaskell to Salford Howarth to Saints, swap deal : Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:03 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

Jones wasn't eased in last season. So why assume Speakman needs easing in this season?

Showing your lack of understanding again. People develop at different rates both physically and mentally it's not 1 rule fits all. The difference between playing in the centre and second row to playing in a pivot position like 6, 7 or 9 is immense.

Re: Gaskell to Salford Howarth to Saints, swap deal : Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:07 am  

No1 Saint wrote:

Showing your lack of understanding again. People develop at different rates both physically and mentally it's not 1 rule fits all.

You've just agreed with me. That's exactly what I was saying. One rule doesn't fit all. So why assume that Speakman isn't ready just because he is young? That appears to be what is being done here.

Re: Gaskell to Salford Howarth to Saints, swap deal : Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:54 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

You've just agreed with me. That's exactly what I was saying. One rule doesn't fit all. So why assume that Speakman isn't ready just because he is young? That appears to be what is being done here.

But you are assuming he is just like Jones. We all assume, but the coaches will be actually able to say where they are and what they can do. If the coaches assessment is that Speakman requires drip feeding into the team, that's based on them knowing the player not just making a wild guess about what type of player he is.

However I still maintain that when Cunningham retired, why was the club not looking to recruit a hooker? Speakman would have been in the under 15's so obviously we had no youth product ready at hooker, so we should have brought one in.

Re: Gaskell to Salford Howarth to Saints, swap deal : Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:56 am  

I'd say if our big pack was getting the quality service that Speakman looked like he could provide, they could make things comfortable for him even if he is a bit tender.

I'd say that overall this would be just as effective as playing a guy who's more physically equipped, but has less talent for dummy half distribution who could look better as an individual, but hamper the pack slightly with inferior service.

But , in Brown we trust. If we get a result today, fair play to him.

Re: Gaskell to Salford Howarth to Saints, swap deal : Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:06 am  

The Chief wrote:

What this does for me is highlight the incredibly short sighted decision made by the majority of clubs (led by Leeds) to scrap the u21's competition. What we have is a massive amount of pressure being placed on 19 year old lads to step seamlessly into the first team action when required due to injuries or longer term, be ready to push for a first team place at the end of their u19's season. Unless they are a freak (Graham or Burgess brothers) you can wave goodbye to any props coming through and commanding a place in the first team squad of 25. Also, the key positions of 9, 7 or 6 - whats the chances of them being ready to take on Leeds/Wigan/Wires in a big game and move the team around the park at 19/20 years old??

I think its a real shame that the u21's was scrapped and for me, the RFL idea of having an u23's was a better concept - it would give the opportunity for these lads to get themselves as ready as possible for a career at SL level and they could be phased in gradually rather than thrown in at the deep end when they are simply not ready. No disrespect to Howarth but the net result is that you end up having to sign 23 y/o third choice hooker from Salford rather than bring in your own player who knows your systems and has been around the club since they were at school.

Quality post, Chief - and I completely agree.

Re: Gaskell to Salford Howarth to Saints, swap deal : Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:08 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

You've just agreed with me. That's exactly what I was saying. One rule doesn't fit all. So why assume that Speakman isn't ready just because he is young? That appears to be what is being done here.

The assumption is based on the fact that Saints have signed a hooker on loan and are putting him straight into the squad for today's game against wigan. That alone justifies the assumption that NB doesn't think Speakman is ready for regular first team action, as a teenager playing in arguably the most important position on the field.

If it looks like a dog, and barks like a dog, chances are, it's a dog.

Re: Gaskell to Salford Howarth to Saints, swap deal : Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:21 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

But you are assuming he is just like Jones.

No I wasn't. I was positing that one player wasn't introduced gently so why should another automatically need to be. My point is exactly that each player is different, and I have made that same point many times over the years, even when others were disagreeing with me! But until we actually see Speakman play in a full match then we won't know how he copes and nor will Brown. Percival, who isn't the biggest bloke in the world, was thrown in for the full 80 against Leeds, who are the champions, so I don't see why Speakman couldn't be given a go against Wigan. Ultimately it is always sink or swim for a new player once they are out there on the pitch.