Re: Quarter Final Aftermath : Sun May 13, 2012 10:29 am  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

To be fair to Simmons, this was something I think he was attempting to change. The scoots from dummy half had been reduced and the half backs were being involved a bit more.

Rush and KC have appeared to me to have gone back to the style of play that was successful under Millward and Anderson (they've said such things themselves), unfortunately for them the game has moved on since then. Whilst these tactics generally work against less able sides, against well organised defences like Wigan's they will almost always fail.

I wouldn't have bothered typing my post had I seen yours.

Re: Quarter Final Aftermath : Sun May 13, 2012 10:33 am  

Famous wrote:

You have quoted what I said, "and he often makes Saints one dimensional". It's fairly straigthfoward.

Oh I also quoted where you said: 'Roby's all round game is very limited', so in response to my question (which you have strangley avoided answering for one reason or another.... ) I'll take that as a yes that's EXACTLY how you put it.

Fairly StraigHTforward.

Re: Quarter Final Aftermath : Sun May 13, 2012 10:35 am  

LovesToSpooge wrote:

You've been badly coached by Simmons I believe that. But it's now what 8 weeks since Rush and the balloning in size KC tuck over, have you seen anything change?

There isn't a change no; I don't see how that question relates to what I said though?

Re: Quarter Final Aftermath : Sun May 13, 2012 10:46 am  

Albion wrote:

There isn't a change no; I don't see how that question relates to what I said though?

You mentioned about being badly coached is all, and I wondered whether you were referring back to Saints time under Simmons or the present coaching staff.

Mainly I asked you because your posts have been fair and balanced unlike a lot of your fellow comrades.

Re: Quarter Final Aftermath : Sun May 13, 2012 11:02 am  

Albion wrote:

Oh I also quoted where you said: 'Roby's all round game is very limited', so in response to my question (which you have strangley avoided answering for one reason or another.... ) I'll take that as a yes that's EXACTLY how you put it.

Fairly StraigHTforward.

If you have quoted in your sig you know exactly how I put it, its there in black and white. I do think his all round game is limited, take away the quick scoot and I dont think he offers a great deal, certainly no more than someone like McIlorum who has other qualities to his game which are vital in close games. That is not to say he is poor, far from it as Roby is undoutebly a great player when his team is on top and he is getting quick play the balls. However as as we have seen time and time again, twice against Wigan this season alone, in other SL games and for England when this isnt the case and I dont think he offers a great deal else and is worse in these areas than someone like McIlorum.

If you are getting quick play the balls and want a scooter hooker then Roby is your man. Wigan play the way they do because McIlorum passes the ball quickly from dummy half when needed and doesnt always jeopodise the set and its organisation by scooting. As I said previously horses for courses and McIlorum does exactly what is needed in this Wigan team. It would actually be interesting to see Roby play in this Wigan team to see if he could adapt his style and do less individually for the good of the team as a whole. I also dont believe that any coach would instruct Roby to continually scoot the way he does or play with such little structure and direction from dummy half.

Re: Quarter Final Aftermath : Sun May 13, 2012 11:19 am  

LovesToSpooge wrote:

You mentioned about being badly coached is all, and I wondered whether you were referring back to Saints time under Simmons or the present coaching staff.

Mainly I asked you because your posts have been fair and balanced unlike a lot of your fellow comrades.

I think the problems under Potter and Simmons are common knowledge, but I can't see how the current coaching staff will be able to do what is necessary to change what's happening: they simply aren't experienced enough.

I suppose it's a little unfair to say that we expected anything much different in truth, I suppose the wins v Leeds and Wire masked the true problems, but they are doing their best in a situation that is far from ideal.

Rush, as alluded to above, has gone back to what he knows from his time under Daniel Anderson and that isn't what is effective in SL now and Billinge_Lump is spot on with what he says above.

Re: Quarter Final Aftermath : Sun May 13, 2012 11:26 am  

Famous wrote:

If you have quoted in your sig you know exactly how I put it, its there in black and white. I do think his all round game is limited, take away the quick scoot and I dont think he offers a great deal, certainly no more than someone like McIlorum who has other qualities to his game which are vital in close games. That is not to say he is poor, far from it as Roby is undoutebly a great player when his team is on top and he is getting quick play the balls. However as as we have seen time and time again, twice against Wigan this season alone, in other SL games and for England when this isnt the case and I dont think he offers a great deal else and is worse in these areas than someone like McIlorum.

If you are getting quick play the balls and want a scooter hooker then Roby is your man. Wigan play the way they do because McIlorum passes the ball quickly from dummy half when needed and doesnt always jeopodise the set and its organisation by scooting. As I said previously horses for courses and McIlorum does exactly what is needed in this Wigan team. It would actually be interesting to see Roby play in this Wigan team to see if he could adapt his style and do less individually for the good of the team as a whole. I also dont believe that any coach would instruct Roby to continually scoot the way he does or play with such little structure and direction from dummy half.

See what happens when you add substance to what you post?

There is a lot more to Roby's game than the scoot. Not to be rude or anything, but you (I assume you aren't a ST holder at Saints!) would only see highlights of our games where he would seem to be continuously attacking the ruck and how he benefits from that, so in a way I don't blame you in as such to believe that he is the player you describe above.

The stats show that he gets out of dummy half more than the average hooker (as we are coached in a centralised way), but that is not where his abilities end. He brings a lot of direction to the team because he has got a good rugby brain which means that he can read Ds well; he also has a decent kicking game which is not utilised enough IMO.

Re: Quarter Final Aftermath : Sun May 13, 2012 11:41 am  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

To be fair to Simmons, this was something I think he was attempting to change. The scoots from dummy half had been reduced and the half backs were being involved a bit more.

Rush and KC have appeared to me to have gone back to the style of play that was successful under Millward and Anderson (they've said such things themselves), unfortunately for them the game has moved on since then. Whilst these tactics generally work against less able sides, against well organised defences like Wigan's they will almost always fail.

I agree.

Re: Quarter Final Aftermath : Sun May 13, 2012 12:44 pm  

The simple problem is defence. Our attack may be flat at times and the distribution is weak (seeing as getting it wide now appears to mean having Lomax running with it to take it there). However, yesterday Wigoon won pretty much every collision which was more than enough to win the game without moving out of second gear. I wouldn't even say their defence was that great (because we created enough half chances to win), it was just easily better than our's.

Whenever we were tackling it was to stop the momentum after the collision. When Wigoon were tackling they were aiming to win the collision and then drive us back. Our defence focused on containment and their's was like a budget version of our all-conquering Super League XI side, driving us back even in the last ten minutes. I can barely recall us doing similar to any of their fowards and yet every tackle in the trenches should be a contest like that. Yesterday it wasn't and the scoreline reflected that. Talk all you want about our inability to score near the line but it doesn't matter if we can't establish an influential defensive platform from which to launch those attacks. Wigoon gifted us the ball when they weren't playing well but were able to defend. Their first attack? A stroll in as our outside backs faced a blitzkreig of attackers.

Re: Quarter Final Aftermath : Sun May 13, 2012 12:47 pm  

McClennan wrote:

Their first attack? A stroll in as our outside backs faced a blitzkreig of attackers.

Those same outside backs read the subsequent 'blitzkreigs' very well though, on our right at least. Makinson and Shenton did some excellent work in defence. Just a shame they hardly ever saw the ball in attack.