FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Josh Jones
::[url=//saints.org.uk](Website)[/url]
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach16170No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 22 200816 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
27th Feb 16 22:3515th Oct 15 20:27LINK
Milestone Posts
15000
20000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Somewhere other than here
Signature
Success is not final; failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. (Winston Churchill)

Re: Josh Jones : Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:31 pm  
Offside Monkey wrote:
No one with any knowledge of rugby would blame the winger in that situation, no matter what team or player were involved.

So in your book of rugby league, who leads the defensive slide?
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach10399No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 29 200519 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
25th Jul 16 12:3925th Jul 16 12:13LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Awaiting a ban.
Signature
[url=www.cater-bake.co.uk]Cater-Bake UK - Pizza and Bakery Equipment Specialists[/url]

Re: Josh Jones : Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:17 am  
SaintsFan wrote:
So in your book of rugby league, who leads the defensive slide?

OK, please excuse the coarse wording of my last post. Here is my full analysis of the situation, which will cover communication in the defensive line. Please have a read and, if you disagree, let me know why.

Get the match up on your player and wait for the replay of the try from behind the try line, pause it when Hodgson has the ball.
Hodgeson has two men outside of him, Bridge and Monaghan.
The 3 saints defenders closest to the touch line are Wilkin, Jones and Meli.

In a 3 on 3 situation, Wilkin would move up on Hodgeson, using simple communication to the man outside of him "ball carriers mine", so that Jones will know there's no danger on his inside and can continue to push up onto Bridge with a similar communication to Meli who can mark Monaghan. So the communication in this situation will start at the man marking the ball carrier and come out from him.

However, Wilkin (3rd defender in) is not in a position to tackle Hodgeson (for reasons I'll cover later). When Hodgeson receives the ball he is in a 3 on 2 situation. Now, from Tony Smith's point, the only reason this situation will not result in a try is poor execution on Wire's part.

Jones, realising that Wilkin is not in position to take Hodgeson, must re-adjust. If he stays on Bridge (2nd man in), then Hodgson will effectivly have a free run to the try line. Like wise, once Meli knows Josh has gone for Hodgson, he will then move in to Bridge so save him walking through a gap if Hodgson gets a simple short pass away.

Essentially, once there's a 3 on 2 situation, there's going to be a gap. All the defenders can do is make sure that the gap is as far away from the ball carrier as possible in order that the attack has to work for the score. In this case they would have needed quick hands, which could easily result in a knock on (see a similar situation in the game against Leeds when the VR disallowed the try for the knock on/forward pass), or the miss pass which is often poorly executed. Unfortunatley for us, it was Brett Hodgeson, a very skilled player, who was there to make a good miss pass for Monaghan to score.

How did this 3 on 2 situation arise? Wind your TV player back to the play of the ball.
From the touch line, the teams line up as follows
Monaghan, Bridge, Grix and Hodgson
Marked by
Meli, Jones, Wilkin and Flanaghan respectively.
From here, Grix is being marked by Wilkin and Hodgson by Flanaghan.

As the ball is played to the dummy half, Grix makes an early run, back towards the ruck across the face of Hodgson, meaning he (grix) has gone from being 3rd man in to 4th, and crossed from Wilkin's channel into Flanaghan's.
The effectiveness of this dummy run, however, has meant that Wilkin has continued to track Grix even when he became Flanaghan's responsibilty and left him in no position to cover his channel with is now occupied by Brett Hodgson.

So the fault lies either with Wilkin's action, or a lack or communication between Wilkin and Flanaghan in order to hold their respective channels, or a little of both.
The fault does not lie with Jones and it does not lie with Meli, who were both on a hiding to nothing as soon as the 3 on 2 overlap was created.

I'd be interested to hear a different take on the situation, if anyone has one.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star3839
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 17 201113 years217th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
11th Oct 24 08:4117th Sep 24 12:56LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Josh Jones : Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:29 am  
Offside Monkey wrote:
<snip>.


Spot on mate.

There is simply no argument against that. So she'll ignore you instead.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman947No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 31 200123 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
3rd Sep 24 14:503rd Sep 24 14:43LINK
Milestone Posts
500
1000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Newport
Signature
Avatar - me at the Ghana V Uruguay 2010 FIFA World Cup Quarter Final at Soccer City - Still loyal to the 'S' wearing my Saints wooly hat.

Re: Josh Jones : Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:51 am  
Offside Monkey wrote:
OK, please excuse the coarse wording of my last post. Here is my full analysis of the situation, which will cover communication in the defensive line. Please have a read and, if you disagree, let me know why.

Get the match up on your player and wait for the replay of the try from behind the try line, pause it when Hodgson has the ball.
Hodgeson has two men outside of him, Bridge and Monaghan.
The 3 saints defenders closest to the touch line are Wilkin, Jones and Meli.

In a 3 on 3 situation, Wilkin would move up on Hodgeson, using simple communication to the man outside of him "ball carriers mine", so that Jones will know there's no danger on his inside and can continue to push up onto Bridge with a similar communication to Meli who can mark Monaghan. So the communication in this situation will start at the man marking the ball carrier and come out from him.

However, Wilkin (3rd defender in) is not in a position to tackle Hodgeson (for reasons I'll cover later). When Hodgeson receives the ball he is in a 3 on 2 situation. Now, from Tony Smith's point, the only reason this situation will not result in a try is poor execution on Wire's part.

Jones, realising that Wilkin is not in position to take Hodgeson, must re-adjust. If he stays on Bridge (2nd man in), then Hodgson will effectivly have a free run to the try line. Like wise, once Meli knows Josh has gone for Hodgson, he will then move in to Bridge so save him walking through a gap if Hodgson gets a simple short pass away.

Essentially, once there's a 3 on 2 situation, there's going to be a gap. All the defenders can do is make sure that the gap is as far away from the ball carrier as possible in order that the attack has to work for the score. In this case they would have needed quick hands, which could easily result in a knock on (see a similar situation in the game against Leeds when the VR disallowed the try for the knock on/forward pass), or the miss pass which is often poorly executed. Unfortunatley for us, it was Brett Hodgeson, a very skilled player, who was there to make a good miss pass for Monaghan to score.

How did this 3 on 2 situation arise? Wind your TV player back to the play of the ball.
From the touch line, the teams line up as follows
Monaghan, Bridge, Grix and Hodgson
Marked by
Meli, Jones, Wilkin and Flanaghan respectively.
From here, Grix is being marked by Wilkin and Hodgson by Flanaghan.

As the ball is played to the dummy half, Grix makes an early run, back towards the ruck across the face of Hodgson, meaning he (grix) has gone from being 3rd man in to 4th, and crossed from Wilkin's channel into Flanaghan's.
The effectiveness of this dummy run, however, has meant that Wilkin has continued to track Grix even when he became Flanaghan's responsibilty and left him in no position to cover his channel with is now occupied by Brett Hodgson.

So the fault lies either with Wilkin's action, or a lack or communication between Wilkin and Flanaghan in order to hold their respective channels, or a little of both.
The fault does not lie with Jones and it does not lie with Meli, who were both on a hiding to nothing as soon as the 3 on 2 overlap was created.

I'd be interested to hear a different take on the situation, if anyone has one.


Concur with Yellow Giraffe, awaiting nonsense reply from deluded female!!!!!
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach10399No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 29 200519 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
25th Jul 16 12:3925th Jul 16 12:13LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Awaiting a ban.
Signature
[url=www.cater-bake.co.uk]Cater-Bake UK - Pizza and Bakery Equipment Specialists[/url]

Re: Josh Jones : Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:45 am  
To be fair, I've asked that people watch the replay back whilst they go through what I've said.

Its a while since I've actually played league, so I'd love to hear from those who've had more recent playing or coaching experience, in case I'm out of touch.

I'm sure Jon Wells would have described all that in a couple of seconds with just a few arrows on the screen.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star3839
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 17 201113 years217th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
11th Oct 24 08:4117th Sep 24 12:56LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Josh Jones : Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:50 am  
Offside Monkey wrote:
To be fair, I've asked that people watch the replay back whilst they go through what I've said.

Its a while since I've actually played league, so I'd love to hear from those who've had more recent playing or coaching experience, in case I'm out of touch.

I'm sure Jon Wells would have described all that in a couple of seconds with just a few arrows on the screen.


I've played rugby for the last 20 years and having watched the replay, I agree with what you say.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach16170No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 22 200816 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
27th Feb 16 22:3515th Oct 15 20:27LINK
Milestone Posts
15000
20000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Somewhere other than here
Signature
Success is not final; failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. (Winston Churchill)

Re: Josh Jones : Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:55 am  
Offside Monkey wrote:
<snip>

I asked a simple question. Now, perhaps you can answer it?
Dux 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member4411
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 13 200322 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
1st Feb 24 10:3111th Apr 18 12:42LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Liverpool

Re: Josh Jones : Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:09 pm  
SaintsFan wrote:
I asked a simple question. Now, perhaps you can answer it?

Image
This post contains an image, if you are the copyright owner and would like this image removed then please contact support@rlfans.com
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman27757No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 22 200123 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
8th Jan 21 14:1929th May 18 16:25LINK
Milestone Posts
25000
30000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
In rocket surgery
Signature
An Ode to Sepp Blatter

Dadbod

Next In Line To The Throne

St Helens and a Fitting End to a Season of Unsung Heroes

Follow my wisdom on Twitter

Top 100 films of the 00s - The Top 5

Re: Josh Jones : Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:09 pm  
Offside Monkey wrote:
I'd be interested to hear a different take on the situation, if anyone has one.


Just to add that sometimes dummy runners throw defenders off the play and people can apportion blame but sometimes you just get beaten. They're only human.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach10399No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 29 200519 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
25th Jul 16 12:3925th Jul 16 12:13LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Awaiting a ban.
Signature
[url=www.cater-bake.co.uk]Cater-Bake UK - Pizza and Bakery Equipment Specialists[/url]

Re: Josh Jones : Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:11 pm  
SaintsFan wrote:
I asked a simple question. Now, perhaps you can answer it?

Last sentance of paragraph 3.

Do you disagree with my analysis? How does your view of the situation differ?
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 292 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to St. Helens


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
40m
TV Games - Not Hull
Yippee try y
3019
41m
Film game
karetaker
4281
45m
5 hours
CobraCraig
3
50m
Transfer Talk V5
ArthurClues
104
Recent
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champions Again in 2024
CobraCraig
8
Recent
FRENCH
moto748
39
Recent
TV games not Wire
Wires71
3617
Recent
Harry Smith
Father Ted
3
Recent
Has anyone got any idea what is going on
Benny Profan
29
Recent
Grand Final
matt_wire
5
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
34s
Shopping list for 2025
Sebasteeno
5365
36s
Grand Final
matt_wire
5
49s
Rumours thread
Scarlet Pimp
2473
54s
SL Grand Final
Scarlet Pimp
5
56s
Film game
karetaker
4281
56s
TV games not Wire
Wires71
3617
1m
2025 membership/renewals
B0NES
54
1m
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champions Again in 2024
RLFANS News
1
2m
Play-off Semi Final Toulouse A
Pyrah123
24
3m
Tonights match v HKR
Big lads mat
115
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
5 hours
CobraCraig
3
TODAY
Harry Smith
Father Ted
3
TODAY
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champions Again in 2024
rollin thund
2
TODAY
New signings
Hangerman2
2
TODAY
OTish betting on the championship
Bull Mania
2
TODAY
Championship Promotion Final
GeoffRoebuck
1
TODAY
Hull Kingston Rovers
LeythIg
2
TODAY
Wakefield Trinity Hear the Roar
Trojan Horse
6
TODAY
SL Grand Final
Scarlet Pimp
5
TODAY
Spirit of the Rhinos documentary
christopher
1
TODAY
Grand Final
matt_wire
5
TODAY
Terrace wear
retrosports
3
TODAY
OT Rohan Smith -
Trebor1
3
TODAY
Alfie johnson CONFIRMED 2 year deal
Smiffy27
16
TODAY
Brian Lockwood RIP
1315trinity
6
TODAY
Grand Final Squad
NickyKiss
16
TODAY
Kit for Saturday
Pie Eyed
8
TODAY
George Hirst
Cruncher
22
TODAY
Player of the Season 2024
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Released Players List
Jemmo
4
TODAY
IN 2025 Jake Connor - Expires 2026
Exeter Rhino
21
TODAY
Has anyone got any idea what is going on
Benny Profan
29
TODAY
Awards
The Avenger
11
TODAY
dan russell confirmed 2 year contract
Wires71
13
TODAY
Play-off Semi Final Toulouse A
Pyrah123
24
TODAY
2025 Catalans Dragons Kit
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Oli Leyland confirmed 2 year deal
ninearches
17
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
111
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
671
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
796
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
573
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
693
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
713
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
1088
Leigh Leopards Make Play Off P..
1169
Catalans Dragons Finish Sevent..
1539
Hull KR Secure Second With Vic..
1668
Wigan Seal League Leaders Trop..
1471
Wakefield Trinity Sweep Aside ..
1825
Catalans Keep Season Alive Wit..
1647
Salford Ensure Play-Offs And S..
1880
Ruthless Wigan Thrash the Rhin..
2158
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Sun 13th Oct
CH
19:30
Swinton-Hunslet
Sun 27th Oct
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sat 2nd Nov
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sat 12th Oct
SL 30 Hull KR2-9Wigan
Sun 6th Oct
L1 26 Keighley6-20Hunslet
CH 29 Bradford25-12Featherstone
WSL2024 16 York V18-8St.HelensW
NRL 31 Melbourne6-14Penrith
Sat 5th Oct
CH 29 York27-10Widnes
SL 29 Wigan38-0Leigh
Fri 4th Oct
SL 29 Hull KR10-8Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 26 1010 262 748 50
Bradford 27 703 399 304 36
Toulouse 25 744 368 376 35
York 28 682 479 203 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Swinton 27 474 670 -196 18
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 0 0 0 0 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
40m
TV Games - Not Hull
Yippee try y
3019
41m
Film game
karetaker
4281
45m
5 hours
CobraCraig
3
50m
Transfer Talk V5
ArthurClues
104
Recent
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champions Again in 2024
CobraCraig
8
Recent
FRENCH
moto748
39
Recent
TV games not Wire
Wires71
3617
Recent
Harry Smith
Father Ted
3
Recent
Has anyone got any idea what is going on
Benny Profan
29
Recent
Grand Final
matt_wire
5
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
34s
Shopping list for 2025
Sebasteeno
5365
36s
Grand Final
matt_wire
5
49s
Rumours thread
Scarlet Pimp
2473
54s
SL Grand Final
Scarlet Pimp
5
56s
Film game
karetaker
4281
56s
TV games not Wire
Wires71
3617
1m
2025 membership/renewals
B0NES
54
1m
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champions Again in 2024
RLFANS News
1
2m
Play-off Semi Final Toulouse A
Pyrah123
24
3m
Tonights match v HKR
Big lads mat
115
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
5 hours
CobraCraig
3
TODAY
Harry Smith
Father Ted
3
TODAY
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champions Again in 2024
rollin thund
2
TODAY
New signings
Hangerman2
2
TODAY
OTish betting on the championship
Bull Mania
2
TODAY
Championship Promotion Final
GeoffRoebuck
1
TODAY
Hull Kingston Rovers
LeythIg
2
TODAY
Wakefield Trinity Hear the Roar
Trojan Horse
6
TODAY
SL Grand Final
Scarlet Pimp
5
TODAY
Spirit of the Rhinos documentary
christopher
1
TODAY
Grand Final
matt_wire
5
TODAY
Terrace wear
retrosports
3
TODAY
OT Rohan Smith -
Trebor1
3
TODAY
Alfie johnson CONFIRMED 2 year deal
Smiffy27
16
TODAY
Brian Lockwood RIP
1315trinity
6
TODAY
Grand Final Squad
NickyKiss
16
TODAY
Kit for Saturday
Pie Eyed
8
TODAY
George Hirst
Cruncher
22
TODAY
Player of the Season 2024
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Released Players List
Jemmo
4
TODAY
IN 2025 Jake Connor - Expires 2026
Exeter Rhino
21
TODAY
Has anyone got any idea what is going on
Benny Profan
29
TODAY
Awards
The Avenger
11
TODAY
dan russell confirmed 2 year contract
Wires71
13
TODAY
Play-off Semi Final Toulouse A
Pyrah123
24
TODAY
2025 Catalans Dragons Kit
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Oli Leyland confirmed 2 year deal
ninearches
17
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
111
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
671
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
796
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
573
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
693
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
713
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
1088
Leigh Leopards Make Play Off P..
1169
Catalans Dragons Finish Sevent..
1539
Hull KR Secure Second With Vic..
1668
Wigan Seal League Leaders Trop..
1471
Wakefield Trinity Sweep Aside ..
1825
Catalans Keep Season Alive Wit..
1647
Salford Ensure Play-Offs And S..
1880
Ruthless Wigan Thrash the Rhin..
2158


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!