Re: Royce Simmons OUT : Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:11 pm  

Allez wrote:

My point entirely. Good coaches exert change quickly. Ours hasn't.

Oh and I'm now annoyed with you - if you're clever enough to be that succinct why didn't you do it earlier??

sorry about that, its been a heavy weekend, my brain is just recovering

Re: Royce Simmons OUT : Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:32 pm  

Allez wrote:

Anderson

Dux and I have talked in length about Mick Potter's tenure, the last coversation we talked about how both Anderson and Potter were students of Brian Smith and both had a very 1D approach to the game, 4 big props, bashing it up, quick play the ball etc. Dux then raised the very good point that these days, we find ourselves in the position Bradford used to around the 2000 mark, often finsihing top of the pile, only to be beaten by Saints come final day, because, come the big occasion, our forwards could match their bully boy tactics but then we had tghe more fluid backs.
Noble is the same, he'll drag you up the table, but unless his paper side is far superior, don't bet on his team in a final.
McGuire has taken a good, not great, bunch of players and got them moving the ball in a way that I haven't seen Saints do sonce Millward was about. That's what we need - Hopefully our disjointedness so far is only a result of Simmons scrubbing the decks clean so he can inplement a brand new, cutting edge attack.

Re: Royce Simmons OUT : Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:50 pm  

Saint Simon wrote:

to be fair, he's not had five weeks though has he? hes had since november so thats about 4 months, even allowing for international players coming back and christmas, he's had at least 10 weeks with the players.
How long did it take Maguire to make Wigan a dominant force again?

He came over in December, didn't he? Or was it late November? Around that time. Anyway, Robes and Jammer were still off due to their international duties. Kyle was still injured and about to have a second operation. Josh Perry was nowhere to be seen at that point, remaining in Australia until January time. Wello was also injured at that point, Lomax couldn't walk due to a fracture in his leg and Pryce was still in rehab after his neck operation. And that's only the injuries I can remember! We also shipped a few players from last season. By the time he got to round 1, he didn't think he would have Kyle but did; thought he would have Leon but didn't. He was still without Josh Perry and Jonny Lomax, and Wello was still dodgy although he played for most of the match against Wigan. Wheeler played at halfback with Kyle, who wasn't really there even though he was. Then Wheeler got injured. Etc, etc, etc. I'd like to know how that scenario can be compared to the start of the first season Potter was here. Potter had a full compliment of players for the full off season bar those who had been on international duty. He also had two experienced halfbacks and a fantastic leader in Cunningham.

Crikey, imagine the posts I would be getting if it was me calling for Royce Simmons' head after just five weeks of his first season with us! It's bloody ridiculous what some people are saying on here! Jeez.

Oh, and Wigan won the League Leader's Shield and the Grand Final. That does not make a 'dominant force'. For all we know it could be a one-off. They only won against Hull today thanks to a penalty.

Re: Royce Simmons OUT : Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:52 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

McGuire has taken a good, not great, bunch of players and got them moving the ball in a way that I haven't seen Saints do sonce Millward was about.

Then we were watching a different Saints under Anderson. We used to have wonderful hands. What Maguire has done is given Wigan a defence. Without their defence, Wigan would be just the same as they were under Noble, as we found in Cardiff. Once they stopped the piley in defence, we started to score against them, and that was without a kicking game or indeed two fully functional halfbacks.

Re: Royce Simmons OUT : Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:53 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

Hopefully our disjointedness so far is only a result of Simmons scrubbing the decks clean so he can inplement a brand new, cutting edge attack.

In that case, i would be of the mind to drop eastmond now and try someone else at seven, a big call, but he wont be here soon enough anyway

Re: Royce Simmons OUT : Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:56 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

He came over in December, didn't he? Or was it late November? Around that time. Anyway, Robes and Jammer were still off due to their international duties. Kyle was still injured and about to have a second operation. Josh Perry was nowhere to be seen at that point, remaining in Australia until January time. Wello was also injured at that point, Lomax couldn't walk due to a fracture in his leg and Pryce was still in rehab after his neck operation. And that's only the injuries I can remember! We also shipped a few players from last season. By the time he got to round 1, he didn't think he would have Kyle but did; thought he would have Leon but didn't. He was still without Josh Perry and Jonny Lomax, and Wello was still dodgy although he played for most of the match against Wigan. Wheeler played at halfback with Kyle, who wasn't really there even though he was. Then Wheeler got injured. Etc, etc, etc. I'd like to know how that scenario can be compared to the start of the first season Potter was here. Potter had a full compliment of players for the full off season bar those who had been on international duty. He also had two experienced halfbacks and a fantastic leader in Cunningham.

Crikey, imagine the posts I would be getting if it was me calling for Royce Simmons' head after just five weeks of his first season with us! It's bloody ridiculous what some people are saying on here! Jeez.

Oh, and Wigan won the League Leader's Shield and the Grand Final. That does not make a 'dominant force'. For all we know it could be a one-off. They only won against Hull today thanks to a penalty.

all those are just excuses, so he has players injured, MP had 10 out at one stage last year and you didnt allow him any slack

Re: Royce Simmons OUT : Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:02 pm  

You bagged potter so much and now I get the feeling you are starting to see what a good job he did with a injury hit squad, you even blamed the injury problems on Potters training!

I've also been told by first team players that most players don't feel confident in Royce Simmons and think his methods are dated.

I'm not calling for his head and not heard anyone else call for his head but it's plain to see the team is lacking coaching at the moment. The is nothing positive in any of the games so far and still picking up injuries.

When Simmons announced we was having two captains, the first thing that came into my head was he's bottled his first big decision.

It's early days with Royce but I'm very very worried about all aspects of our game. The attack is terrible and predictable, we can't tackle, kicking utter rubbish and worst of all we have no fire, pride or heart.

Re: Royce Simmons OUT : Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:02 pm  

Saint Simon wrote:

all those are just excuses, so he has players injured, MP had 10 out at one stage last year and you didnt allow him any slack

Because IT WAS HIS SECOND SEASON!! And it wasn't just the injuries! They were fat and unfit - even people who were pro-Potter were making that point last season!

Bloody hell. You are being ridiculous! If I had started saying the kinds of things you are saying five weeks into Potter's first season what would you have said in response? The pi$$ taking on here would have been overwhelming! However, I didn't start criticising Potter until the Hull match at the outset of last season - and I was not alone. I gave Potter the whole of the first season. But to you and others like you - Simmons is poop because he isn't Maguire!

I really, really hope now that Simmons creates in Saints the best team since the world began. Boy will I enjoy copying and pasting all these posts if that happens!

Revenge would be mine!!

Re: Royce Simmons OUT : Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:04 pm  

St pete wrote:

It's early days with Royce but I'm very very worried about all aspects of our game. The attack is terrible and predictable, we can't tackle, kicking utter rubbish and worst of all we have no fire, pride or heart.

Yeah, yeah, yeah!

Scuse me if I just give the bloke some time to work through all the various issues that have confronted him since he arrived in order to enable our team to play a brand of rugby league that does not involve Kieron Cunningham running around like a mad man trying to get a game back on track.

Re: Royce Simmons OUT : Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:07 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Because IT WAS HIS SECOND SEASON!! And it wasn't just the injuries! They were fat and unfit - even people who were pro-Potter were making that point last season!

Bloody hell. You are being ridiculous! If I had started saying the kinds of things you are saying five weeks into Potter's first season what would you have said in response? The pi$$ taking on here would have been overwhelming! However, I didn't start criticising Potter until the Hull match at the outset of last season - and I was not alone. I gave Potter the whole of the first season. But to you and others like you - Simmons is poop because he isn't Maguire!

I really, really hope now that Simmons creates in Saints the best team since the world began. Boy will I enjoy copying and pasting all these posts if that happens!

Revenge would be mine!!

They were fat and unfit i'll give you that, but it got us to the grand final despite injuries.
If Royce does turn it around and turn this team of potential world beaters into the world beaters, noone will be as happy as me!