Re: THEM : Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:42 pm  

As already mentioned we need to play a similar game to the one we played at the DW. That particular game we broke up there structure by moving quickly into there line so they couldn,t dominate.
I don't think we need to concentrate too much on MM, don,t think we will see him making himself available to be tackled with the ball in hand. Its Smith and SOL who need to be contained.
Reading the Rugby Papers I should imagine our players will be highly motivated by the weekend with whats been written in the press, last game for Soliola and Manu might mean they go out with a BANG.

Re: THEM : Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:54 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

I don't think we need to concentrate too much on MM

Couldn't agree more - he's dead with the ball.

I think we'll match their pack, our issues on Saturday will be out wide as they have good, complementary halves and brilliant wingers (thankfully the centres aren't all that).

Re: THEM : Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:02 pm  

St pete wrote:

Thanks for the kind words

However, I stick my what I say. I just feel he offers nothing with the ball at all. I understand he's a big player for Wigan as he does exactly what Wane wants to the letter. He puts players off their game.

I do think Higham is a better player, I also believe Clark has been brought into Warrington to play with Micky Higham and not replace him.

Fair enough. If that's your opinion I've no doubts it's a genuine one. However, for the sake of debate, don't you think it interesting that neither Saints nor Wigan were happy to go with him as first choice hooker? In fact his tenure at our place coincided with one of our worst periods in SL and we moved him on for better options a soon as was possible. Moving on to Wire, he's consistently been second choice behind Monas and, now he's hanging up his boots, will play second choice to Clarke. You say Clarke hasn't been bought to replace Higham and, in that, we can both agree. However, he HAS been bought to be first choice hooker. If Higham was as good as you're suggesting then surely he'd have taken that role? The truth is he's found his niche as replacement hooker and, in that role, he is very good. To suggest he is better than first choice at double winners and this year's GF favourites Wigan, not to mention the fact that, injury notwithstanding, he'd be a current England international is pushing it a bit! Let me rephrase my end question from last time. If Wigan had McIlorum out long term and needed a hooker do you think they'd look to Higham (presuming availability) to fill that role? Likewise Saints if Roby was out? I think I can say without hesitation that the answer in both cases would be a definite ''no''.

Re: THEM : Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:14 pm  

Phuzzy wrote:

However, for the sake of debate, don't you think it interesting that neither Saints nor Wigan were happy to go with him as first choice hooker?

Saints have had Roby and Cunningham so he would have had to be Cameron Smith to be first choice hooker here.

And anyway, Matty Smith couldn't hold down first choice 7 at Saints, doesn't stop Wigan fans claiming he's the best 7 in super league . . . . .

Re: THEM : Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:14 pm  

Phuzzy wrote:

Fair enough. If that's your opinion I've no doubts it's a genuine one. However, for the sake of debate, don't you think it interesting that neither Saints nor Wigan were happy to go with him as first choice hooker? In fact his tenure at our place coincided with one of our worst periods in SL and we moved him on for better options a soon as was possible. Moving on to Wire, he's consistently been second choice behind Monas and, now he's hanging up his boots, will play second choice to Clarke. You say Clarke hasn't been bought to replace Higham and, in that, we can both agree. However, he HAS been bought to be first choice hooker. If Higham was as good as you're suggesting then surely he'd have taken that role? The truth is he's found his niche as replacement hooker and, in that role, he is very good. To suggest he is better than first choice at double winners and this year's GF favourites Wigan, not to mention the fact that, injury notwithstanding, he'd be a current England international is pushing it a bit! Let me rephrase my end question from last time. If Wigan had McIlorum out long term and needed a hooker do you think they'd look to Higham (presuming availability) to fill that role? Likewise Saints if Roby was out? I think I can say without hesitation that the answer in both cases would be a definite ''no''.

Warrington don't play with one hooker, they use the two in the same fashion as saints did with KC and Roby.

It has worked for both clubs IMO

Re: THEM : Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:21 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

Saints have had Roby and Cunningham so he would have had to be Cameron Smith to be first choice hooker here.

And anyway, Matty Smith couldn't hold down first choice 7 at Saints, doesn't stop Wigan fans claiming he's the best 7 in super league . . . . .

I understand the point re Cunningham and Roby but that just further cements my point that he isn't up there with the best; hence you moving him on just as we did when better options came along.

The difference is that Matty Smith was just a youngster during his time with you and has matured into a much better player than he was then. In fact I'd go so far as to say he is a completely different proposition these days and he has proved it numerous times. Higham is a player coming to the end of his career. There is no real comparison between the two as I'm sure you already know.

Re: THEM : Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:23 pm  

St pete wrote:

Warrington don't play with one hooker, they use the two in the same fashion as saints did with KC and Roby.

It has worked for both clubs IMO

Almost all teams work with two hookers. I'm not sure that alters the points I was making in any way. Higham is still back up hooker whichever way you dress it. What about the questions I asked at the end Pete? What's your opinion on those?

Re: THEM : Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:25 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

Saints have had Roby and Cunningham so he would have had to be Cameron Smith to be first choice hooker here.

And anyway, Matty Smith couldn't hold down first choice 7 at Saints, doesn't stop Wigan fans claiming he's the best 7 in super league . . . . .

Making the dream team two years running suggests he's rated by more than just Wigan fans. He couldn't make your team because Eastmond was thought to be a better long term bet. And no doubt looking at the two of them, at the time, that was a reasonable view.

I think you are perhaps failing to take account of Smith's progress though. He certainly isn't the same player he was in the 2010 GF.

Re: THEM : Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:27 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

Making the dream team two years running suggests he's rated by more than just Wigan fans. He couldn't make your team because Eastmond was thought to be a better long term bet. And no doubt looking at the two of them, at the time, that was a reasonable view.

I think you are perhaps failing to take account of Smith's progress though. He certainly isn't the same player he was in the 2010 GF.

I think you're missing my point, which is that being released by Saints doesn't necessarily mean you're not a top player, it may just mean you had playes like Cunningham/Roby/Eastmond blocking your path at the time.

Re: THEM : Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:30 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

That all seems reasonable and well argued. There is no evidence that you could get him sent off though. The last time he got sent off was a full two years ago in the last regular game in 2012 which cost us big time as he missed the playoffs. He's not seen red since.

I would have thought that your game plan is simple. Play like you did in the game at DW. Masoe LMS and Soliola did plenty of late/cheap shots (not a complaint - just an observation) as I recall, so Saints have proved they can mix it. Man for man your pack is much bigger that ours. Just play like it and you can win.

You need to stop Wigan getting it wide though, our wingers are far superior (that not saying Makinson and Swift aren't good players by the way)

Can't disagree with any of that. If our pack sit back and let Wigan attack, we'll lose. We did that against Catalans, but they weren't good enough to take advantage. Warrington did the same on Friday and were lucky only to be 8 points down. Wire stood up in the second half and pushed Wigan.

I remember Brown saying after the game against Warrington at the Magic Weekend that he knew how to beat Wigan. He proved that in June. We played with aggression, we played a bit dirty in June, and that's what we need to do on Saturday. If we don't we'll lose. We need Mose, Sia, Amor and LMS to play as they can, and if they do, we'll always have a chance.

I'm confident our defence has enough to contain Wigan, my concern in that we might not have enough in attack. Our kicking game needs to be perfect, but with no recognised kickers, that's going to be difficult. I think it will be a very close game, and wouldn't be surprised if it's very low scoring. Goalkicking could be very important, and I'd take every shot we may get at goal if we're level or ahead.