Re: Nathan Brown : Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:47 pm  

St pete wrote:

For people getting on Browns back, what would you do with this current squad?


(I'm not saying he's not to blame for some things this year but the squad is awful)

Exactly!
If we're in the same position this time next year ill be calling for him to go, but I honestly can't see that

Re: Nathan Brown : Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:50 pm  

What would I do? We have to be clinical with our recruitment. Wellens, Ade, Perry, Meli, Hohaia, Wilkin, TP and Laffranchi all need to go, but we know that won't happen. Rumours of new deala for Wellens and Ade infuriate me. It's like the club want to play rugby roulette.

We need to sign more players like Walmsley; young, hungry and eager to take their chance. I don't mind recruiting from lower leagues, as it appears to be working well with the likes of Hill, Hardaker, Walmsley etc. For this to happen we really need Brown to have the final say in the team recruitment, but with KC as his assistant and Rush above him as the CEO, is he really running the team? He needs to restructure the coaching set up. New sports science people with physios. Our injury record is abysmal over the last few years since AP left.

Next, stop tinkering. We need stability. If Yates is fit, give him a go. If Swift is fit, let him have a chance to make No.6 his own. We have promoted youth this season due to injuries, but you could say that maybe some should be given more of a chance?

Re: Nathan Brown : Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:57 pm  

Carlos Alberto wrote:

What would I do? We have to be clinical with our recruitment. Wellens, Ade, Perry, Meli, Hohaia, Wilkin, TP and Laffranchi all need to go, but we know that won't happen. Rumours of new deala for Wellens and Ade infuriate me. It's like the club want to play rugby roulette.

We need to sign more players like Walmsley; young, hungry and eager to take their chance. I don't mind recruiting from lower leagues, as it appears to be working well with the likes of Hill, Hardaker, Walmsley etc. For this to happen we really need Brown to have the final say in the team recruitment, but with KC as his assistant and Rush above him as the CEO, is he really running the team? He needs to restructure the coaching set up. New sports science people with physios. Our injury record is abysmal over the last few years since AP left.

Next, stop tinkering. We need stability. If Yates is fit, give him a go. If Swift is fit, let him have a chance to make No.6 his own. We have promoted youth this season due to injuries, but you could say that maybe some should be given more of a chance?

I mean with this current crop of rubbish we have this season.


The is no way we will release all those players listed above because we can't replace them. The isn't enough quality players off contract to bring in and we won't pay for anyone.

Re: Nathan Brown : Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:40 pm  

This season? Choose a team and stick with it. Give Swift a run at 6 alongside GOB, bring Lomax back in at FB and bring Makinson back alongside Percival. Needs to somehow light a fire underneath our forwards too.

Re: Nathan Brown : Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:00 pm  

Carlos Alberto wrote:

What would I do? We have to be clinical with our recruitment. Wellens, Ade, Perry, Meli, Hohaia, Wilkin, TP and Laffranchi all need to go, but we know that won't happen. Rumours of new deala for Wellens and Ade infuriate me. It's like the club want to play rugby roulette.

We need to sign more players like Walmsley; young, hungry and eager to take their chance. I don't mind recruiting from lower leagues, as it appears to be working well with the likes of Hill, Hardaker, Walmsley etc. For this to happen we really need Brown to have the final say in the team recruitment, but with KC as his assistant and Rush above him as the CEO, is he really running the team? He needs to restructure the coaching set up. New sports science people with physios. Our injury record is abysmal over the last few years since AP left.

Next, stop tinkering. We need stability. If Yates is fit, give him a go. If Swift is fit, let him have a chance to make No.6 his own. We have promoted youth this season due to injuries, but you could say that maybe some should be given more of a chance?

Spot on. If we dish out contracts on sentiment we deserve to be mid table fodder

Re: Nathan Brown : Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:55 pm  

St pete wrote:

For people getting on Browns back, what would you do with this current squad?


(I'm not saying he's not to blame for some things this year but the squad is awful)

I think that misunderstands the point a few of us have been making. My point is that the squad is NOT awful. There are a lot of good players on that field. Most of the team Saints put out against Huddersfield have played for an international squad. Some of those players are very good indeed.

So I disagree with your argument that Brown is only working with a rubbish squad. It's not a rubbish squad, and you only need to revisit some of the pre-season optimism on here to see that very few people thought it was rubbish.

Which is why this isn't about selection necessarily. For all that I agree with those who argue that his tinkering isn't helping, the bottom line here is that hardly any of our players are playing to their potential, or their past demonstrated form, either individually or as a team. Saying that the squad is pants is wrongly letting Brown off the hook. The squad isn't pants. The performance of the players is pants. Brown isn't getting decent performances out of them.

Re: Nathan Brown : Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:57 pm  

Roy Haggerty wrote:

I think that misunderstands the point a few of us have been making. My point is that the squad is NOT awful. There are a lot of good players on that field. Most of the team Saints put out against Huddersfield have played for an international squad. Some of those players are very good indeed.

So I disagree with your argument that Brown is only working with a rubbish squad. It's not a rubbish squad, and you only need to revisit some of the pre-season optimism on here to see that very few people thought it was rubbish.

Which is why this isn't about selection necessarily. For all that I agree with those who argue that his tinkering isn't helping, the bottom line here is that hardly any of our players are playing to their potential, or their past demonstrated form, either individually or as a team. Saying that the squad is pants is wrongly letting Brown off the hook. The squad isn't pants. The performance of the players is pants. Brown isn't getting decent performances out of them.

Well said.

Re: Nathan Brown : Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:09 am  

The players need belief, pride and passion in the shirt. And the coach needs to trust his players. Unshackle them and let them play a bit of rugby. Rush and KC came in last season and did that instantly. When we turned over Leeds and Wire and went on a decent run, they were asking Rush what he'd done, what he'd changed. Fact is, he never really 'tactically' changed that much. They just believed and trusted in the players and I think they returned that faith in their performances.

Brown keeps tinkering. If you're playing in different positions every week then you start to think the coach doesn't believe and trust in you, doesn't believe you're good enough to play in the position you played in the previous week, and so confidence dips and things start going wrong.

Re: Nathan Brown : Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:35 am  

The thing that worries me about Brown is that the squad is essentially the same as last season, some would say it's better this season. Alright we've had a few injuries but even when we're only a couple down the performances haven't been good enough. Rush and KC didn't have any halves either, they just made do with what they did have and kept it solid and consistent. It seems to me that Brown is trying to run before he can walk and it's collapsing spectacularly. A spell of back to basics, solid rugby with players in set positions carrying out set moves in set circumstances is the best way forward.

Re: Nathan Brown : Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:28 am  

Roy Haggerty wrote:

I think that misunderstands the point a few of us have been making. My point is that the squad is NOT awful. There are a lot of good players on that field. Most of the team Saints put out against Huddersfield have played for an international squad. Some of those players are very good indeed.

I've posted that I feel this - that we've actually got a good 2/3 of a team.
Roby's return saw him marshall the forwards to arguably their better performance of the last couple of months. They and the Hudds forwards really knocked lumps out of each other at times.
Lomax retuning to the fullback berth could do the same for the backs. His presence will mean we'll have a clear plan to use him out wide as often as possible.
However, is that just papering over the cracks? Is that players playing well in spite of the coach?

I once wrote, when asked about Huddersfield's chances under Brown that the longer he'd been in the job, the less cutting edge he seemed - almost as if he's brought a bag of coaching tips from the NRL and used them to great effect, but as the other coaches adapted their ideas and improved, Brown stayed still. I hope I was wrong.

I do hope that come the run in and playoffs, we'll snap into serious mode.