Re: J-Lo the magnificent : Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:24 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

While I can appreciate the argument of Meli-v-Makinson in the finishing department, Makinson is streets ahead of Gardner in finishing tries. The tries Makinson has scored during his time on the wing Gardner could never have scored. He just doesn't have that agility or fleetness of foot. Can you imagine Gardner (or Meli for that matter) scoring that try in the GF? The one that turned the game in our favour? Or the tries he has scored with one hand and the rest of his body hanging over the touchline? Never in a gazillion years could Gardner have come close to scoring any of those.

Dude, you hark back to the 2011 gGF too often. Tommy isn't so bad that he's only ever done a couple of good things.
His acrobatic finishes last year were great to watch and showed that he has the ability to add to his game as he get's older, but don't pretend that Ade can't finish. He has shown repeatedly over the years that if there's a chance in the corner,he'll get in using great strength and body position.
Tommy's better defending kicks, but I don't think we've really seen him use that ability at the other end to score some of the tries you'd associate Gardner (or Monaghan or Richards). He also has pace which we saw a few time last year, mainly when Shelton hit that run of form.

Re: J-Lo the magnificent : Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:31 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

Dude, you hark back to the 2011 gGF too often.

I'm still pee'd off that we lost that one, that's why! lol

Tommy isn't so bad that he's only ever done a couple of good things.

Oh, you don't need to convince me. I think he's great. I just think that particular try - the one at the unmentionable match - was incredible, and to do it on the big stage like that in your debut season as the youngest bloke on the pitch. I just think nobody gives him the credit he deserves, and no, not just for that, but that was amazing.

but don't pretend that Ade can't finish.

I didn't say Ade couldn't finish. What I did say was that Makinson is streets ahead of Ade in the finishing stakes, and that is what I believe, most sincerely.

Tommy's better defending kicks, but I don't think we've really seen him use that ability at the other end to score some of the tries you'd associate Gardner (or Monaghan or Richards). He also has pace which we saw a few time last year, mainly when Shelton hit that run of form.

We would probably have seen a helluva lot more of Makinson in all respects had he just got the ball sometimes. But we were determined to go left. I think it was the only way Wello/Lomax could pass, and from what I saw on Friday night that isn't about to change any time soon unfortunately.

Re: J-Lo the magnificent : Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:54 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

We would probably have seen a helluva lot more of Makinson in all respects had he just got the ball sometimes. But we were determined to go left. I think it was the only way Wello/Lomax could pass, and from what I saw on Friday night that isn't about to change any time soon unfortunately.

I've wAtched Saints for nearly 20 years now and I played an awful lot of rugby union over the same period.
One thing I've come to realise is that sometimes there are players that you want to succeed, because you see potential and you like their qualities. So, when they don't hit the heights that you think hey deserve, you look for reasons like the one you've given above.
I was the samewith Shenton, claiming that we didn't do him justice because we starved him of possession. I kind of felt vindicated when he got a bit of ball last year year and do a few nice things, but then t'other week I saw a debutant centre play in a tight game when his pack were beaten and he made three classy breaks in one game on the smallest of oppotunity. Shents may be a decent centre that we didn't use to his full potential, but he was not the oppressed superstar that I had him pegged as - if he was, we'd have seen a lot more from him.
Same goes for Tommy. He's had a lot of game time, but hasn't done an awful lot to wow us, bar developing a spectacular way to dive in at he corner and one or two glimpses of a dangerous runner. You represent him with a real passion, which is admirable, but at he end of day, if he were that good, given the chances he's had, there wold be no competition from Gardner, Makinson would have had that shirt sown up.

Re: J-Lo the magnificent : Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:37 am  

Judder Man wrote:

The problem with Makinson is that everytime he looks as though he has got some space to run he always find some way to run into a cul de sac. In contrast Gardener and Meli always look dangerous to the opposition and provide momentum on the next play.
Makinson doesn,t seem to have enough strength and agression and always gets mauled in the tackle ending up with a very slow play the ball.
Maybe Brown has seen this state of play hence Gardener and Meli being first choice, for the short term anyway.

I keep saying that Makinson just doesn't seem to have the instincts to be a winger. The number of times he makes a break and immediately holds up and starts to look inside to offload it instead of just seeing the tryline and going for it as any real winger with his pace would is a real worry for me. I just don't think he'll ever be that good now frankly...

Re: J-Lo the magnificent : Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:48 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

Apparently he missed three out of four tackles. He can't defend a bomb much less catch one. He was running backwards for the try scored through Hohaia. He jumped out of the line twice and smashed his man, although only once convincingly, and that was about it for defence from Gardner. How do you think Riley got so close to the line? That was Gardner's wing. Had it not been for a superb tackle from Lomax, Wire would have scored on that one. Gardner was nowhere.

Gardner's kick returns are great although less effective on Friday night than they have been in the past. But that really is all the bloke has going for him. I for one want to see more from a winger than that.

Did i read somewhere that you wanted to see him moved to 2nd row? How do you think his ineffective drives with the ball and poor defence will go there? Apologies if it wasn't you. I don't suppose it can have been with what you have written about him here.

Re: J-Lo the magnificent : Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:28 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

You can't provide an example when, as a winger, he has fluffed a bomb. He is incredibly brave with the bombs, like Lomax is. He is also very good at getting them.

Widnes away last season. Made a hash of several kicks that day.

Re: J-Lo the magnificent : Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:40 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

I've wAtched Saints for nearly 20 years now and I played an awful lot of rugby union over the same period.
One thing I've come to realise is that sometimes there are players that you want to succeed, because you see potential and you like their qualities. So, when they don't hit the heights that you think hey deserve, you look for reasons like the one you've given above.
I was the samewith Shenton, claiming that we didn't do him justice because we starved him of possession. I kind of felt vindicated when he got a bit of ball last year year and do a few nice things, but then t'other week I saw a debutant centre play in a tight game when his pack were beaten and he made three classy breaks in one game on the smallest of oppotunity. Shents may be a decent centre that we didn't use to his full potential, but he was not the oppressed superstar that I had him pegged as - if he was, we'd have seen a lot more from him.
Same goes for Tommy. He's had a lot of game time, but hasn't done an awful lot to wow us, bar developing a spectacular way to dive in at he corner and one or two glimpses of a dangerous runner. You represent him with a real passion, which is admirable, but at he end of day, if he were that good, given the chances he's had, there wold be no competition from Gardner, Makinson would have had that shirt sown up.

A great way of saying someone is obsessed

P.S I like Tommy Makinson and really hope he kicks on a proves he's worth hanging onto

Re: J-Lo the magnificent : Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:50 pm  

No1 Saint wrote:

A great way of saying someone is obsessed

P.S I like Tommy Makinson and really hope he kicks on a proves he's worth hanging onto

Nah, it's just when you support a team, you wAnt them to succeed, and when you see something in one of your players, you want them to fulfill every inch of potential.

I always wanted them to give Gaz frodsham more chances, but given the way his career u turned, its obvious he was missing something. I always thought Tony Sewart would have made a great centre, but without the red vee he failed to do much at all. I tried to tell myself that Damien Smith was a good player because of the odd flash, but he absolutely stunk for a whole year.

Re: J-Lo the magnificent : Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:55 pm  

J-Lo is having a massive impact on our season. That tonight was a very, very hard game. Had Wellens been playing, we'd have struggled to score a lot more and would probably have been drawn into a dogfight. J-Lo's attacking threat was massive and where it wasn't him directly cutting them to pieces, it was them worrying about where he was that was allowing people to stroll over.

I'll bet there are a few Saints coaches watching him now who feel prize fools for not playing him fullback for years now. In hindsight it was a horrendous mistake. There is only Greg Eden who could be a better fullback in SL than J-Lo (Tomkins is Saracens bound).

Re: J-Lo the magnificent : Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:08 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

There is only Greg Eden who could be a better fullback in SL than J-Lo .

You were doing OK until I read this bit.