Re: New Contracts - Flannery, Meli & Wellens : Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:46 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Which forward would that be then?

Then you're out of synch with your fellow Wigan fans who I have seen write that they would snap up Pryce, Eastmond, Roby, Tony P and Graham, even now with their soopa doopa squad which is all conquering and the start of a new dynasty! But the same goes for Warrington, Leeds, Hudds, etc. I've seen fans from all those boards wish they had a Roby, Eastmond, etc, in their teams. You really need to read around a bit before making these assertions you know.

"I say it so it must be true" is always an interesting premise, I find.

No, of course not! When would a Wigan player belittle Saints' academy products? I would never have imagined such a thing.

So far as Gleeson is concerned, you need to read up on your RL history mate. As for Briers, in his own words written in the RL press just a few weeks ago, he 'spat his dummy out' and left Saints because he didn't think he was getting the amount of game time he needed at the time he left. We haven't regretted it though because we got Longy. And Longy was much, much better than Briers. His loss, not ours!

Firstly I'm not a Wigan fan. So... yeah.

I may follow your style of making up context to things the other person has said.

Or i'll just answer what you said honestly.

A1. Soliola. Grand Final.

I have mentioned i'm not a Wigan fan. but my picks for players that could walk into other teams were Graham and Eastmond and Shenton. So yeah you are agreeing with me. I've not seen support for Roby (the second best player at SAints IMO) or Tony P and certainly not Pryce. As i said Bradford want him. That is all i have read. Maybe i haven't read enough but both the SAints board and the Bradford board see him traveling across the M62. Don't deny that.

Don't be so ignorant. I have provided a long list of reasons why i don't think the other players you mentioned would "walk" into "most" clubs.

Don't know what you are talking about with the Wigan academy thing. But I personally know a good academy. Saints have proven this year that their youngsters will become good. Foster, Lomax, Clough and Dixon are all talents. They will BECOME good.

Yeah Longy was great. He would have walked into any club. In fact he retired to Hull FC, one of the richest clubs in terms of history. It doesn't matter whether you kicked out the player or they sought more money or they "spat their dummy out" i was saying you don't have those players (that can walk into any club in super league) now.

That isn't a dig at your history. It is more a comment on the SAints of the off season 2010. Today you have three or four palyers who are good enough to walk into "most of" super league.

And also a side note Rlfans are way different to coaches at the respective clubs. Even if the whole saints board thought a player was good. doesn't mean they will walk into a club. Just as Wigan and Warrington etc thinking certain players are good. If you had said that "Kevin Brown and Tony Smith say so and so is a great player" then so be it but saying fans like a player means nothing. We give opinions but don't assume it is gospel. I don't think more than three or four of the SAints players mentioned would walk any SL Club. SAying that other fans really like them though means nothing.

Re: New Contracts - Flannery, Meli & Wellens : Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:03 pm  

jdrocket wrote:

but my picks for players that could walk into other teams were Graham and Eastmond and Shenton. So yeah you are agreeing with me.

Am I? I don't remember mentioning Shenton myself. But there you go ...

I've not seen support for Roby (the second best player at SAints IMO) or Tony P and certainly not Pryce.

You've not noticed such comments then, which is fine.

Don't be so ignorant. I have provided a long list of reasons why i don't think the other players you mentioned would "walk" into "most" clubs.

That's fine. But disagreeing with you isn't ignorance; it's simply disagreeing with you.

Saints have proven this year that their youngsters will become good. Foster, Lomax, Clough and Dixon are all talents. They will BECOME good.

Some of them are good already. Some will become much better than good. Oh, and Clough is older than Foster, Lomax and Dixon btw. You really do need to read up!

It doesn't matter whether you kicked out the player or they sought more money or they "spat their dummy out" i was saying you don't have those players (that can walk into any club in super league) now.

Well, yes, obviously. And we haven't missed them either.

And also a side note Rlfans are way different to coaches at the respective clubs.

Really? I wouldn't have known. However, the context of this exchange of posts is poster opinions, not the opinions of coaches. So my response was relevant.

Re: New Contracts - Flannery, Meli & Wellens : Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:04 pm  

jdrocket wrote:

Briers has matured as excellent player for Warrington and i would argue he has more of a chance of walking into teams ahead of Soliola or LMS. A proven leader is always better than a big forward who then disappears when the going gets tough.

Are you talking about Lee 'This is a tough game, I'm going down injured' Briers there?

Re: New Contracts - Flannery, Meli & Wellens : Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:37 pm  

Am I? I don't remember mentioning Shenton myself. But there you go ...

2 out of three ain't bad. I am saying that half of the ones you mentioned i agreed with and visa vera.

You've not noticed such comments then, which is fine.

I'd be happy for you to provide them. I honestly would love to be proven wrong on this one.

That's fine. But disagreeing with you isn't ignorance; it's simply disagreeing with you.

No the ignorance came in completely changing the context of what i said to belittle me. That isn't fair. I gave reasons why players wouldn't and you changed it to "cause i said" that isn't fair.

Some of them are good already. Some will become much better than good. Oh, and Clough is older than Foster, Lomax and Dixon btw. You really do need to read up!

I know how old they all are. Don't worry. In terms of level of playing they haven't peaked yet. That is the point. They will increasingly find a place in the squad. Twenty to early twenties is still young.

Well, yes, obviously. And we haven't missed them either.

It is irrelevent. In fact forget about them in terms of this. This is about Saints players being marketable. ex Saints players don't matter.

Really? I wouldn't have known. However, the context of this exchange of posts is poster opinions, not the opinions of coaches. So my response was relevant.

yes it is my opinion that 3 or 4 are good enough. It is your opinion that there are a lot more than that. You can't use what other people on the website say as fact. What if a hundred idiots said that i should be signed for Leeds. I know it is absurdum but a fair few people don't rate Mathers even after he saved so many tries for Warrington in the Challenge cup. Many don't rate Eastwood at Leeds but he was the reason they beat Wigan at home in the play-offs. People are by nature ill informed on something.

I said that teams don't have room for players that are arguably inferior in their team and I offered you to provide coaches or officials or people connected to a club responses to provide weight to your claim; you haven't.

We aren't getting anywhere here. Shall we just agree to disagree?

Re: New Contracts - Flannery, Meli & Wellens : Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:43 pm  

I've just laughed hysterically.

jdrocket wrote:

Wellens is too old and lacks pace- maybe a Salford or Cats or Cru cru cru- that ilk.

He's still in the top 3 or 4 full backs in this country and most clubs would take a punt on him. Maybe not Wigan, Warrington or Leeds as they have excellent full backs next year, but most other clubs certainly would.

jdrocket wrote:

Shenton- is a good centre and worth the risk. He isn't amazing just yet but could be good really soon. Don't know how many clubs would take the risk though.

A British international Centre, there aren't many players as good as him over here, so we've done really well to get hold of him. I've no doubt other clubs would've been after him.

jdrocket wrote:

Pryce- damaged goods and getting past his best. He hasn't been amazing this season even before injury and Bradford seem nails on to get him soon. That speaks volumes IMO

The funniest part of your post. You clearly haven't seen alot of him this year, because he's had possibly his best season of his career. Saints were possibly favourites to win the Cup before his injury ended his season. As soon as his season ended, Saints chances took a dramatic dive.

jdrocket wrote:

Eastmond- another with potential. One of the most gifted players with ball in hand many have ever seen. But breaks like a soggy biscuit. Worth a risk but until proven won't be at any top sides.

That's fair. Fully fit he's an outstanding player, certainly as good as Sam Tomkins, but his injuries concern me and many others.

jdrocket wrote:

Graham- spoken about. Potential to be best prop in super league but ATM horrible attitude and niggle player. any team would sign him up now.

Fair.

jdrocket wrote:

Roby- Great but unproven. In Kc's shadow. Don't know how well i am to comment other than that. I thought he was great this year though. Next year i will give a sound assessment of him as hooker though.I predict big things.

Unproven, are you kidding me? Man of Steel a few years back, our Player of the Season this year and a regular in the England side. Roby is an outstanding rugby league player and clearly under rated by some.

jdrocket wrote:

Perry- Don't know much. What i do know he is an ageing aussie. Who so far is not well indorsed. Saints have a way of making good on this sort of deal and in a couple of seasons would maybe be snapped up by "nearly every" team. ATM too much of a liablity to risk.

I'm pretty sure Perry is 28 / 29 years of age, which you'd consider the peak of most players careers. David Fairleigh was 31 when he came here and Darren Britt was 32, both were superb for us.

jdrocket wrote:

Soliola- again don't know much. He seems like a good player. Grand final performance- would struggle to make wakey grade i feel.

Difficult to judge on 6 games, but from what I've seen there's enough about him to suggest he'll be a good player for us. Wakefield would lvoe a player of Soliola's calibre as would most SL clubs. Leeds were after him when we signed him - that says enough for me.

jdrocket wrote:

LMS- star prop. Could be good but again wouldn't be alking into most super league clubs. In a couple of seasons, probably. The biggest thing about him is he is good for a londoner.

3 or 4 SL clubs were interested, including Wigan. Potentially an excellent player and this could be the move he needs. He's certainly a step up from Hargreaves, Emmitt and even Fa'asavalu (based on his last 2 seasons).

Re: New Contracts - Flannery, Meli & Wellens : Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:51 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

We have no quality in the outside backs or at fullback.

Should I call for the men in white coats now or later? "No quality" - None? Then what "quality" do all the teams bar one below us possess - negative quality? The truth is you have lost what notion you had of the connection between WORDS and MEANING.

I just wonder whether we are telling the truth about it being the cap that is stopping us. Surely it could just be the fact that the revenue is going to nosedive next season and them making provisions for that. I wouldn't mind that and I guess they couldn't admit or no one would turn up.

Either way - it's pretty much out of the club's hands.

But I just think they should be doing more. There seems to be an obsession with promoting youth players, but the vast majority are useless as anything more than squad players. We used to have a very strong squad. That turned into a strong 17 when a few retired or left. Then a strong 13. Now we've not got any world class overseas players in the squad at all and only two, possibly three top quality English players. I'd argue that bar Graham and Roby none of the top sides would want any of our players.

See - you're doing it again. If we "used" to have a very good squad why did we finish second after a season with one of the worst injury crises in recent history? I mean, you COULD argue no-one would want any of our players outside of Graham and Roby but you'd look a fool doing it. Knock yourself out.

Another possibility is that the club is just paying the kids too much. Eastmond is the only one with obvious quality, but keeping him long term looks almost impossible. The likes of Lomax, Clough, Ashurst, Dixon, Armstrong, Foster etc are all decent SL level squad players but compared to the players they have replaced in our squad they are all noticable steps down in quality.

The truth here is you're behaving like a child - reaching around for any old pretext however obscure and/or ridiculous in order to apportion BLAME to something or someone for not providing something YOU CAN'T EVEN EXPLAIN. Again and again, season after season, you continue to argue that this squad is hopeless. Not worth a pasty. And yet this very same squad has made Old Trafford on four consecutive occasions (we have finished top of the league and won the Challenge Cup). I wouldn't mind so much if Saints had been thrashed out of sight in all four games. Far from it. In two out of our three against Leeds you could argue with some justification that we lost out because of the handling errors of ONE PLAYER (Meli). And against Wigan we were hardly taken to the cleaners despite starting the match with neither of our recognised halves.

Re: New Contracts - Flannery, Meli & Wellens : Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:28 pm  

By the way the only players not to resigned or confirmed leaving are...

Jamie Ellis
Shaun Maggenis
Andrew Yates
Gareth Frodsham

I can't see all of these players getting released especially Maggenis.

Re: New Contracts - Flannery, Meli & Wellens : Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:58 pm  

Shauns still got 1 year left on his contract. Might even be 2.

Forgot what he told me but his definately contracted for next year.

Re: New Contracts - Flannery, Meli & Wellens : Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:21 am  

Noel Cleal wrote:

By the way the only players not to resigned or confirmed leaving are...

Jamie Ellis
Shaun Maggenis
Andrew Yates
Gareth Frodsham

I can't see all of these players getting released especially Maggenis.

I can see them all being released myself.

Re: New Contracts - Flannery, Meli & Wellens : Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:32 am  

MacBlondie wrote:

I can see them all being released myself.

I think you should ask saddened for a paternaty test