Re: Hock : Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:41 pm  

Dux wrote: It looks as though Hock may have burned his bridges at Salford: 'Koukash was less emphatic about the future of troubled Salford forward Gareth Hock, however, who was banned for sic [sic] games this week for foul play. "It’s up to Gareth now," said Koukash. "But I think, sitting with him at the weekend talking with him about his future in rugby league, maybe the time has come for Gareth to see what else he wants to do other than rugby league."' http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_170 ... ukash.html I'd worry about what he may do. Does he have any irons in the fire? But I can see why Koukash may think enough is enough, time for someone else to take the burden off him.

Dux wrote: It looks as though Hock may have burned his bridges at Salford: 'Koukash was less emphatic about the future of troubled Salford forward Gareth Hock, however, who was banned for sic [sic] games this week for foul play. "It’s up to Gareth now," said Koukash. "But I think, sitting with him at the weekend talking with him about his future in rugby league, maybe the time has come for Gareth to see what else he wants to do other than rugby league."' http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_170 ... ukash.html I'd worry about what he may do. Does he have any irons in the fire? But I can see why Koukash may think enough is enough, time for someone else to take the burden off him.

Re: Hock : Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:53 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Ok smart arris you obviously have difficulty in following anything that doesn't comply with your views.
I'm over 50 and when I started watching league virtually every team had a forward who could off load lay a ball off to supporting players. Today they are virtually non existent due to all coaches being obsessed with forward stereotypes who all run with their heads down looking to go no further than the advantage line with 4 more similar players sitting on the bench. I believe Hock to be a throwback to those days when more risks were taken and is a very under rated exponent of that craft.
I believe and said that Graham is an excellent player and one of the best uk props I have ever seen but his MAJOR strength isn't his ability with the ball - not doubting his ability just don't believe that it is his greatest asset.
Tchhh a Saints fan hey who can't understand a counter argument or take the time to read and digest the arguement. You couldn't make it up.

I'd say Graham is the old school type prop youre talking about? Doesn't need spelling and able to do some ball handling (not just offloading). He's also an athelete based on old fashioned strength, rather than someone like Burgess who's all power (yes, there's a difference and the power is something that has been boosted exponentially by modern training).

Re: Hock : Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:52 pm  

In the last test against Australia James Graham was taking the ball at first receiver as the primary playmaker. He regularly does so for the Bulldogs.

When has Gareth Hock EVER played as an attacking pivot?

Re: Hock : Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:49 am  

Offside Monkey wrote:

I'd say Graham is the old school type prop youre talking about? Doesn't need spelling and able to do some ball handling (not just offloading). He's also an athelete based on old fashioned strength, rather than someone like Burgess who's all power (yes, there's a difference and the power is something that has been boosted exponentially by modern training).

Yes I wouldn't disagree with that.
A few people seem to have the impression that I don't rate Graham which couldn't be further from my actual opinion of him.
All that I've been saying is that Hock has been vastly under rated.
He has had too many last chances and perhaps now his luck has quite rightly ran out. One of the worst cases of throwing away a talent I've ever seen in the game but time moves on.

Re: Hock : Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:15 am  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Ok smart arris you obviously have difficulty in following anything that doesn't comply with your views.
I'm over 50 and when I started watching league virtually every team had a forward who could off load lay a ball off to supporting players. Today they are virtually non existent due to all coaches being obsessed with forward stereotypes who all run with their heads down looking to go no further than the advantage line with 4 more similar players sitting on the bench. I believe Hock to be a throwback to those days when more risks were taken and is a very under rated exponent of that craft.
I believe and said that Graham is an excellent player and one of the best uk props I have ever seen but his MAJOR strength isn't his ability with the ball - not doubting his ability just don't believe that it is his greatest asset.
Tchhh a Saints fan hey who can't understand a counter argument or take the time to read and digest the arguement. You couldn't make it up.

Listen, Hock isn't a throwback to any nostalgic part of RL history. He's a waster. In a tough game for the Reds against the champions of this country, he contributed 17m, was sinbinned and earned himself a 6 match ban. He's a throwback to a juvenile, immature, waste of oxygen. He does not do the tough stuff at all and helps his team not one iota. You may want to polish the turd because of his Wigan past but I won't sugarcoat it. He's a joke who lets his teammates down and isn't worthy of a shirt.

You compeltely have Graham wrong. Any Saints fan (and NRL now) will point to his ball handling as one of his greatest traits. I'd personally only put his work ethic above it. But, he didn't play for Wigan did he ? So we'll have to listen to your daft bias as you endeavour to somehow, drag someone of Graham's brilliance into any form of comparison with a low life scumbag such as Hock.

Open you eyes before you lecture me on the sport.

Re: Hock : Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:28 am  

SLS wrote:

Listen, Hock isn't a throwback to any nostalgic part of RL history. He's a waster. In a tough game for the Reds against the champions of this country, he contributed 17m, was sinbinned and earned himself a 6 match ban. He's a throwback to a juvenile, immature, waste of oxygen. He does not do the tough stuff at all and helps his team not one iota. You may want to polish the turd because of his Wigan past but I won't sugarcoat it. He's a joke who lets his teammates down and isn't worthy of a shirt.

You compeltely have Graham wrong. Any Saints fan (and NRL now) will point to his ball handling as one of his greatest traits. I'd personally only put his work ethic above it. But, he didn't play for Wigan did he ? So we'll have to listen to your daft bias as you endeavour to somehow, drag someone of Graham's brilliance into any form of comparison with a low life scumbag such as Hock.

Open you eyes before you lecture me on the sport.

If you dont think Hock is a throwback then you either have a short memory or maybe just arnt that old. Alot of his dirty play is exactly like how Rugby used to be played by players in the not so distant past such as Skerrett (and who can forget Sampson sticking one back on the dirty sod), our very own Sonny Nickle dished out some cheap shots as did Shane Cooper (and many more across all teams).

Hock of course has the added dimension of his tussle's with ref's and of course the drugs ban. Not pointing fingers at any past players obviously but drugs testing has evolved over the years to catch people that previously would have remained hidden.

Re: Hock : Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:28 pm  

SLS wrote:

Listen, Hock isn't a throwback to any nostalgic part of RL history. He's a waster. In a tough game for the Reds against the champions of this country, he contributed 17m, was sinbinned and earned himself a 6 match ban. He's a throwback to a juvenile, immature, waste of oxygen. He does not do the tough stuff at all and helps his team not one iota. You may want to polish the turd because of his Wigan past but I won't sugarcoat it. He's a joke who lets his teammates down and isn't worthy of a shirt.

You compeltely have Graham wrong. Any Saints fan (and NRL now) will point to his ball handling as one of his greatest traits. I'd personally only put his work ethic above it. But, he didn't play for Wigan did he ? So we'll have to listen to your daft bias as you endeavour to somehow, drag someone of Graham's brilliance into any form of comparison with a low life scumbag such as Hock.

Open you eyes before you lecture me on the sport.

Wasn't going to reply to your usual shoite but here goes
The thread was about Hock with Graham brought into the thread when I asked people to name any of today's forwards whose main attribute was ball handling and quite rightly Graham was raised as one such forward. By the way the absence of other names particularly of players under 30 was pretty stark.
Would I have Graham in my team before Hock? Yes a no brainer even with my my so called bias.
Hock could and should have been a top talent but he's blown it down to his own stupidly. I don't believe that at any point in this thread that I have defended Hock.
I am lamenting the lack of differing types of forward in the mould of George Nicholls, Alan Prescott,
Knocker Norton, Harry Pinner, Brian McTigue, Brian Edgar, Mal Reilly, Bill Ashurst. Enough former Saints players for your liking?
You live in your twilight world where virtually every forward looks the same and plays the same with all teams having at least 3 more forwards on the bench who are exactly the same alnd all other fans are so biased they can't give an opinion that may and probably is different from the majority but I don't want to.
Your approach is to bully and demean anyone who doesn't agree with you well it won't work with me but keep on trying if you like but it won't wash as bullies have zero impact on me and your rants make me smile.

Re: Hock : Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:02 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

You must be a psychologist.

I've watched Hock since he was about 15 or 16 years of age and have never seen him feared of anyone. He and Ryan Bailey took on the all conquering Aussie schools pack at academy level and left them in tears (Mike Gregory was England academy coach at the time)
His problem has always been self control. I watched the game down at my mams and when Masoe took Dobson out you just knew that Hock would go looking for him and he didn't miss. Endless coaches have tried but you'll never change him.

In many ways it's a pity because we all saw in that first twenty minutes what a handful he can be.

I guess he's looking at another three or four match ban from last night and it's quite deserved.

Lol. Really? You know what, I watched all the schoolboys games as my mate was racjng about some lad called Gareth hock. He got smashed to bits by Ryan Hoffman. I even remember a big hit from Hoffman where he preceded to stand over hock and hock just played the ball and kept his head down. I Like how you are trying to spread lies though, just to stick up for an ex wigan player. It's pretty cute

regards

king james

Re: Hock : Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:43 pm  

not sure it helps Hock's cause by pairing him with Superleague's "hard man" Ryan Bailey.....

Re: Hock : Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:07 am  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Wasn't going to reply to your usual shoite but here goes
The thread was about Hock with Graham brought into the thread when I asked people to name any of today's forwards whose main attribute was ball handling and quite rightly Graham was raised as one such forward. By the way the absence of other names particularly of players under 30 was pretty stark.
Would I have Graham in my team before Hock? Yes a no brainer even with my my so called bias.
Hock could and should have been a top talent but he's blown it down to his own stupidly. I don't believe that at any point in this thread that I have defended Hock.
I am lamenting the lack of differing types of forward in the mould of George Nicholls, Alan Prescott,
Knocker Norton, Harry Pinner, Brian McTigue, Brian Edgar, Mal Reilly, Bill Ashurst. Enough former Saints players for your liking?
You live in your twilight world where virtually every forward looks the same and plays the same with all teams having at least 3 more forwards on the bench who are exactly the same alnd all other fans are so biased they can't give an opinion that may and probably is different from the majority but I don't want to.
Your approach is to bully and demean anyone who doesn't agree with you well it won't work with me but keep on trying if you like but it won't wash as bullies have zero impact on me and your rants make me smile.

?????

You engaged me in this debate when your opening post told me I'm talking tripe and 'shoite'. Telling me I'm a bully and don't like differing opinions following your behaviour here is very hypocritical. My rants ? This is my 5th post all week, three of which have been direct responses to you. Again, I'm not sure what you're going on about.

I initially pointed out that for all the chat about Hock being good in the opening part of the Saints game, he actually contributed next to nothing. He's like that Hock - one flashy offload and everyone seems to think he's been impressive. He hasn't IMO. Anyhow, you responded to me by telling me how he's a throwback. Maybe he is a throwback to a time when forwards had better hands but how can he be compared to some of the names you've mentioned when he doesn't do the hard stuff at all, gets himself banned and sinbinned constantly as well. That isn't a good player, it's an idiot. He had talent but he didn't want it. His own fault and I have no sympathy. I worry for him when the game inevitably throws him out as he doesn't strike as the sharpest knife in the drawer. Saying that, I won't be losing any sleep either.

I don't actually get what you're arguing about. You appear to agree with me yet rather than just say so, you prefer to throw all kinds of rubbish and then play the victim and blame me ? I agree that the game has changed and forwards are all very similar. I totally agree that the element of risk has disappeared from the game. I agree that Hock had talent but has blown it. So, tell me again, what exactly are you arguing for ?