Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:00 pm  

SuffolkCherryPie wrote:

What difference does it make whether they are front line or third prop by the way. surely it's easier for a third prop to make yards when the defence is tiring in either half.

Well, Thompson for instance played a little wider than the frontline props in a side that struggled moving the ball. He played as a third prop from the back of the scrum, not really as an interchange. It isn't really about tiring defences. The consequence of this is that a defence has more time to slide and move up and so the carrier doesn't make the same level of yardage. Greenwood may well also be a stronger ball carrier than both, hence the increased yardage. Again, I'm not sure what your issue is because I've never even mentioned Greenwood.......each to their own. These are tactical nuances as well which one can't expect your daft lot to understand.

SuffolkCherryPie wrote:

His defence improved greatly last season, defended well in the 4 nations. A daft Saints fan wouldn't recognise that though. Sarginsons potential is just the same as Percival.

Didn't see any of the Four Nations, hence I haven't commented on them once. I'd dispute that Sarginson's potential is the same, he isn't a natural in the same way Percival is in that position in my opinion, manifesting in as I said, a player that doesn't run a natural centre's line. I'm willing to accept that his defence improved. In fairness, it couldn't get much worse. He's a talent, I've already said it, I'm not sure what more you're after ? I could just state that Wigan are the best team I've ever seen and we should all lie down and not bother trying. The funny part is your board would probably consider that reasonable.

SuffolkCherryPie wrote:

For the love of God, how many times do we have to do this. We only had one prop on the pitch at any one time after Flower was sent off.

There are tactical means to still use the middle of the field however. Wigan chose not to. Wane made the choice to leave one prop on the field at any one time because your game is based on playing down the channels. That's hardly St Helens' fault, is it ? The fact remains that your props went nowhere. Crosby 20 odd metres in a Grand Final ?!?! That's pathetic. Can't make metres when Masoe keeps knocking him on his booty though I guess......

SuffolkCherryPie wrote:

Going nowhere. Sarginson made 191 metres! We bombed a couple of good chances made out wide, so we certainly weren't going nowhere.

This is how you daft lot try and argue how good all your players are. Your backs make metres because of your tactics, where you shift much earlier and aim to make territory by attacking through the channels. You do it even more when the opposition defence is aggressive in the middle and you invariably can't handle it. In fairness, you're good at going wide early and your strengths lie there (because they certainly didn't lie in the front row). However, stronger defences use 'bend and don't break' tactics, where they slide out wide until the room runs out. The consequence is usually an attacker turning in field where he is easily defended. Of course you had your opportunities, all sides will do over 80 minutes. You weren't good enough to take them because you carry some error prone players lacking in composure.

SuffolkCherryPie wrote:

I've read plenty of posts from sensible Saints fans, sayng they were worried every time we attacked out wide. I pointed out how you lot lost a 10 point lead when down to 12 men against the Giants. I take it you're not accepting any excuses for that loss then.

Sensible fans ? You mean fans that agree with you ? Well, there's a real shock !

The Giants ? We had no playmakers alongside a man sent off and still went close. You conveniently just gloss over the fact that Saints had zero passing game at the end of the season; they literally could do little except attack the middle of the field and yourselves, Leeds, Catalans, Cas etc still couldn't beat us.

SuffolkCherryPie wrote:

The last 2 years we've won the double and lost a GF, which we probably would have won without Flowers moment of madness. We scored the most tries last season. We need to have other options of course, Wane has recognised that, but our rugby has been pretty effective the last 2 seasons.

Yes, you've done okay whilst teams and the RFL figure your crap out. Saints probably would have strolled it with a full strength team. Saints with a fit playmaker probably score more tries than you judging by the start we made. Saints with Luke Walsh after Flower was sent off would have had to declare at Old Trafford and Wigan could have been looking at the biggest reversal in GF history. You should count yourselves fortunate. See ? We can all play 'ifs, buts and maybes'......

SuffolkCherryPie wrote:

Show me one person who has said this. As i said before, every fan of every club in any sport, always rates their own players higher than other teams. It's part of life. Your obvious hatred of Wigan has made you look a right tool on this thread. As your fellow saints fans have commented, this could come back to bite you on the bum come next October.

I could point to a whole raft of utterly embarrassing posts by Wiganers (you're all very good at it). Still, I call things as I see them and aren't prepared to sit on the fence and be beige like most on here. It's loving boring to be honest.

Bite me on the booty ? An Internet forum ? Oh, what will I do ! How will I ever move on !

Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:43 pm  

I love the smell of quotes in the morning.

Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:54 pm  

Since we're all so concerned with things 'biting us on the booty' at the end of the season, I've just done some interesting reading on Wiganer's thoughts on us prior to the season just gone.

This isn't 2006, Saints are now an afterthought.

Wigan's spine is 'head and shoulders' above Saints' (that would be the spine that lost to Makinson at 1, Turner at 7, Flanagan at 6 and Roby at 9 I take it )

McIlorum is now a much better hooker than James Roby !!!!! I can't believe somebody actually wrote this down.

Matty Bowen one of the top five full backs on earth ! Oh, I couldn't breathe for laughing at this one.


Like I said previous, they're all loving crackpots.

Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:54 pm  

SLS wrote:

Since we're all so concerned with things 'biting us on the booty' at the end of the season, I've just done some interesting reading on Wiganer's thoughts on us prior to the season just gone.

This isn't 2006, Saints are now an afterthought.

Wigan's spine is 'head and shoulders' above Saints' (that would be the spine that lost to Makinson at 1, Turner at 7, Flanagan at 6 and Roby at 9 I take it )

McIlorum is now a much better hooker than James Roby !!!!! I can't believe somebody actually wrote this down.

Matty Bowen one of the top five full backs on earth ! Oh, I couldn't breathe for laughing at this one.


Like I said previous, they're all loving crackpots.

If I could be bothered I could find plenty of posts knocking Wigan before the 2013 season, but if I want to keep my job, i'd better do some work.
You have found some good ones there though I have to admit.

I could just state that Wigan are the best team I've ever seen and we should all lie down and not bother trying. The funny part is your board would probably consider that reasonable.

That would be fantastic if you did that. The pandemonium that would cause.

Wane made the choice to leave one prop on the field at any one time because your game is based on playing down the channels. That's hardly St Helens' fault, is it ?

Why would he have done anything else? It would be like Brown telling your team to fling the passes out wide and ignore the strength of your team.

Sensible fans ? You mean fans that agree with you ? Well, there's a real shock !

The Giants ? We had no playmakers alongside a man sent off and still went close. You conveniently just gloss over the fact that Saints had zero passing game at the end of the season; they literally could do little except attack the middle of the field and yourselves, Leeds, Catalans, Cas etc still couldn't beat us.

I don't care about people agreeing with me, this forum would be dull if everyone agreed with each other. It was more about Saints fans who can appreciate the opposition, something you struggle with.
The no playmakers bit is a bare faced lie. You had LH and GW playing. You were 10-0 up with just over 10 minutes of the first half left, against a team a week later got absolutely thrashed by Wigan. If you think Wigan should still have beaten you a man light, then surely you should have been able to hang on to a lead, against a team who a week later, was one of the poorest that I've ever seen in a play-off game. Or just maybe we helped make them look poor.

Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:48 pm  

Wigan have plenty of ability. The problem is size. Looking at the two sides in the GF Saints looked a stone a man heavier. Maybe more. That size difference was largely responsible for flicking Wigan's yardage game off like a light.

Even with the best backs in the world (which Wigan don't have) - without yardage they must pull a rabbit out of the hat every time or it's a certain defeat. And rabbits aren't statistically significant in any sport at the very top level.

Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:32 pm  

I've only just come across this SLS on this thread. I have to say she or he is the most objectionable character I have ever come across. She or he doesn't care either. I have tried to be reasonable and was met with sarcastic abuse. Others have tried to reason with her/him to no avail. I think it probably best to call it a day.

Best of luck this season to all the decent Saints fans on here and whilst Saints are always our biggest enemies I would never say I hated anyone or dismiss the entirety of the town in such bigoted fashion.

See you a week on Sunday. Hope it's a decent game.

Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:44 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

I've only just come across this SLS on this thread. I have to say she or he is the most objectionable character I have ever come across. She or he doesn't care either. I have tried to be reasonable and was met with sarcastic abuse. Others have tried to reason with her/him to no avail. I think it probably best to call it a day.

Best of luck this season to all the decent Saints fans on here and whilst Saints are always our biggest enemies I would never say I hated anyone or dismiss the entirety of the town in such bigoted fashion.

See you a week on Sunday. Hope it's a decent game.

Oh, come on......

Don't be so ridiculous. I'm a perfectly reasonable fellow with anybody who wishes to discuss the game in a rational manner (and I'm happy to acknowledge that you seem able to do so). Unfortunately, in my experience Wiganers are rarely able to do so. Largely because they attract the glory hunting nut cases who know nothing of the game. Your own board is full of them with crazy statements that imply that there isn't a single weakness in your team. I've already said I could just as easily rip my own team apart but this is a thread about Wigan.

FWIW, I also wish all clubs, Wigan included, the best of luck for the season and may the best side win. I honestly think it's between the two old Lancastrian foes again as I'll never back a side that hasn't been champions since the 50's and I think Leeds' reliance on Peacock and their general weakness in the front row leaves them unlikely to match Saints or Wigan.

Can't get anymore reasonable than that !

Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:53 am  

http://www.wigantoday.net/news/local/ma ... witterfeed This is the kind of people that town produces. Backward they are.

http://www.wigantoday.net/news/local/ma ... witterfeed This is the kind of people that town produces. Backward they are.

Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:16 pm  

SLS wrote:

Oh, come on......

Don't be so ridiculous. I'm a perfectly reasonable fellow with anybody who wishes to discuss the game in a rational manner (and I'm happy to acknowledge that you seem able to do so). Unfortunately, in my experience Wiganers are rarely able to do so. Largely because they attract the glory hunting nut cases who know nothing of the game. Your own board is full of them with crazy statements that imply that there isn't a single weakness in your team. I've already said I could just as easily rip my own team apart but this is a thread about Wigan.

FWIW, I also wish all clubs, Wigan included, the best of luck for the season and may the best side win. I honestly think it's between the two old Lancastrian foes again as I'll never back a side that hasn't been champions since the 50's and I think Leeds' reliance on Peacock and their general weakness in the front row leaves them unlikely to match Saints or Wigan.

Can't get anymore reasonable than that !

Since, as a Christian, I believe in the power of redemption I am going to try to cut you some slack.

So I'll start with offering an apology. I overreacted.

However, whilst I agree with your point about glory hunters, surely the same has happened to Saints. The best team of the previous decade and world champions to boot. You must indeed have your share of glory hunters? And since the two towns share a similar geographical, political and socio-economic past in a very real sense your analysis of Wiganer's is like holding a mirror up to yourself. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Still think you underestimate Wire. Possessors of the best, most innovative coach in Super League who came mighty close last year. Clark and Sims will improve them.

Let peace break out. Haha.

Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:59 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote: Since, as a Christian, I believe in the power of redemption I am going to try to cut you some slack. So I'll start with offering an apology. I overreacted. However, whilst I agree with your point about glory hunters, surely the same has happened to Saints. The best team of the previous decade and world champions to boot. You must indeed have your share of glory hunters? And since the two towns share a similar geographical, political and socio-economic past in a very real sense your analysis of Wiganer's is like holding a mirror up to yourself. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Still think you underestimate Wire. Possessors of the best, most innovative coach in Super League who came mighty close last year. Clark and Sims will improve them. Let peace break out. Haha. Plenty of glory hunters according to this: http://www.runningrugby.com/tickets-dat ... ket-sales/ The Super League champions have perhaps unsurprisingly boosted their season ticket sales with the smell of success in the air at Langtree Park and St Helens have sold around 10 per cent more than this time last year, taking their total from just over 7,000 to just under 8,000 and are expecting more sales to come in the next few weeks.

Aboveusonlypie wrote: Since, as a Christian, I believe in the power of redemption I am going to try to cut you some slack. So I'll start with offering an apology. I overreacted. However, whilst I agree with your point about glory hunters, surely the same has happened to Saints. The best team of the previous decade and world champions to boot. You must indeed have your share of glory hunters? And since the two towns share a similar geographical, political and socio-economic past in a very real sense your analysis of Wiganer's is like holding a mirror up to yourself. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Still think you underestimate Wire. Possessors of the best, most innovative coach in Super League who came mighty close last year. Clark and Sims will improve them. Let peace break out. Haha. Plenty of glory hunters according to this: http://www.runningrugby.com/tickets-dat ... ket-sales/ The Super League champions have perhaps unsurprisingly boosted their season ticket sales with the smell of success in the air at Langtree Park and St Helens have sold around 10 per cent more than this time last year, taking their total from just over 7,000 to just under 8,000 and are expecting more sales to come in the next few weeks.