Re: Match Reaction : Sat May 04, 2013 8:57 am  

jaybs wrote:

Not shouting for Brown to go! but didn't McManus declare he would search the world to get the best coach?

Nathan Brown simply does not inspire me, I recorded BBC North West last night for a feature at the end about a young kid I support and they reported live from the ground and spoke to Brown and Betts, the latter in his club jacket & tie, Brown without a tie, his shirt collar outside his jacket as people would wear in the Saturday Night Fever era, would that inspire me? No! that same attitude comes over in after match media interviews, does not seem to care just excuses.

McManus also said we would have the best rugby stadium in the land, we don't, he lied.

He also said, we would have a team to grace our great stadium, we don't, he lied.

I don't believe much he says these days.

Re: Match Reaction : Sat May 04, 2013 9:03 am  

St pete wrote:

Don't forget Widnes had Hanbury, Cross, ah van missing to tonight.

And don't forget that Craven and Marsh were just back from injury.

Also one of the stalwarts of our pack Hep Cahill is still out with injury.

SL clubs do have an injury list, but also have, or should have, reasonably sized squads.

I think that our team had something to prove after our 12 men [11 for 10 minutes] lost narrowly at home.

You should not want to sack the coach, that is the province of the Widnes Forum

Re: Match Reaction : Sat May 04, 2013 9:05 am  

Great post, Roy Haggerty.

Re: Match Reaction : Sat May 04, 2013 9:08 am  

St pete wrote:

McManus also said we would have the best rugby stadium in the land, we don't, he lied.

He also said, we would have a team to grace our great stadium, we don't, he lied.

I don't believe much he says these days.

The problem is we need a very rich man to replace him. One who doesnt care that much about his money

Re: Match Reaction : Sat May 04, 2013 9:18 am  

No1 Saint wrote:

The problem is we need a very rich man to replace him. One who doesnt care that much about his money

Or a chairman that tells the truth and not try to put a spin on things. I've said from day one that all this crap he was spouting about the "golden generation" coming thru and what great youth we've got was all "doing it on the cheap"

When everyone was taking all that crap in, we had stupid silly team listings on here of kids. We had the fans taken in by McManus saying we don't need to replace anyone with outside players because we've got this young player and that young player but where is Jamie foster, lee Gaskell, Kyle Eastmond, jake emmitt, ashurst, Dixon, tyrer etc?

90% on here fell for the spin doctors "we going with youth".

IT WAS DOING IT ON THE CHEAP!!!!!!

Rant over

McManus should have been honest and come out and told us that the stadium build will mean we can't bring the quality of player in that we are used to but will try and get there, it might take years but we we want the fans to understand that the stadium had to come first (or something along those lines)

Re: Match Reaction : Sat May 04, 2013 10:01 am  

St pete wrote:

Or a chairman that tells the truth and not try to put a spin on things. I've said from day one that all this crap he was spouting about the "golden generation" coming thru and what great youth we've got was all "doing it on the cheap"

When everyone was taking all that crap in, we had stupid silly team listings on here of kids. We had the fans taken in by McManus saying we don't need to replace anyone with outside players because we've got this young player and that young player but where is Jamie foster, lee Gaskell, Kyle Eastmond, jake emmitt, ashurst, Dixon, tyrer etc?

90% on here fell for the spin doctors "we going with youth".

IT WAS DOING IT ON THE CHEAP!!!!!!

Rant over

McManus should have been honest and come out and told us that the stadium build will mean we can't bring the quality of player in that we are used to but will try and get there, it might take years but we we want the fans to understand that the stadium had to come first (or something along those lines)

I agree and I've said it before it's all about communication. Fans would be more likely to be patient if the club was talking to us , like you say and being honest.

Re: Match Reaction : Sat May 04, 2013 12:00 pm  

No1 Saint wrote:

I agree and I've said it before it's all about communication. Fans would be more likely to be patient if the club was talking to us , like you say and being honest.

Exactly my point

Re: Match Reaction : Sat May 04, 2013 2:19 pm  

St pete wrote:

Or a chairman that tells the truth and not try to put a spin on things. I've said from day one that all this crap he was spouting about the "golden generation" coming thru and what great youth we've got was all "doing it on the cheap"

When everyone was taking all that crap in, we had stupid silly team listings on here of kids. We had the fans taken in by McManus saying we don't need to replace anyone with outside players because we've got this young player and that young player but where is Jamie foster, lee Gaskell, Kyle Eastmond, jake emmitt, ashurst, Dixon, tyrer etc?

90% on here fell for the spin doctors "we going with youth".

IT WAS DOING IT ON THE CHEAP!!!!!!

Rant over

McManus should have been honest and come out and told us that the stadium build will mean we can't bring the quality of player in that we are used to but will try and get there, it might take years but we we want the fans to understand that the stadium had to come first (or something along those lines)

I don't think that's necessarily true. If you look at what Wigan have done over the last few years, they haven't spent big in terms of recruitment. They've relied mainly on their youth and are reaping the benefits now. The same could be said of Leeds. The difference is they have done it better than us, and when they have dipped into the transfer market they have been smarter about it than we have. I don't think they've spent more than us though.

Re: Match Reaction : Sat May 04, 2013 3:09 pm  

Dux wrote:

I don't think that's necessarily true. If you look at what Wigan have done over the last few years, they haven't spent big in terms of recruitment. They've relied mainly on their youth and are reaping the benefits now. The same could be said of Leeds. The difference is they have done it better than us, and when they have dipped into the transfer market they have been smarter about it than we have. I don't think they've spent more than us though.

Well said.

McManus has made mistakes - only a fool would deny that - but I also think some people on here are talking nonsense and making out things that simply aren't true.

The fact is, every season we've spent up to near the cap. We've never gone for the "cheap option". Bringing players through the youth system is part of the game. When McManus was talking about focusing on youth development instead of automatically bringing in established players, he was doing so against the backdrop of one of the strongest & most promising groups of young players to have come through the youth ranks in years. Players like Roby, Eastmond, Lomax, Foster, Wheeler, Gaskell, Dixon, Makinson, Emmitt, etc. There'd been significant investment in bringing that group together at Saints.

The general feeling amongst fans at the time was that this was the right route for the club. I mean, why invest in a strong youth programme if you're then just going to bring in older journeymen from other clubs, whilst the young players leave and potentially carve themselves top careers for our rivals?

As it turns out, most of these players haven't turned out to be the answer, for whatever reason (either moving on - Eastmond - or not developing to their earlier potential)

Yet the club hasn't stopped recruiting during all this. In the last four years, we've brought in:

Soliola
LMS
Perry
Laffranchi
Hohaia
Turner
Manu
Flanagan

Some have been good buys, others haven't lived up to the reputations and past performances that led us to sign them (through no fault of McManus). But all are on a decent wage. Hardly 'going for the cheap option'.

As I've said before, we've had rank bad luck with some signings, whilst other plans have had to be completely rethought (eg the "future England halfback combination" of Lomax & Gaskell).

We are now at a stage where we need to rebuild. We need to find a way to jettison the underperforming players and use their salaries on better recruits (although, who's to say these wouldn't also be flops, contrary to past performances...)

This is the first time Saints have hit a real crisis in playing staff since at least 1998 (when we stank in McRae's last season) and I think we should wait to see how the club responds before becoming hysterical. If players like Perry, Frank, Hohaia & Wellens are still at the club next season, then I'll join in the calls for wholesale change at the top. Similarly, if the Walsh signing doesn't come off (or we don't sign another experienced half) and replace Perry & Frank with proven front row enforcers, then I will again agree with those demanding McManus goes.

But let's give those in charge at the club a chance to put right mistakes that we only see with the benefit of hindsight.

Re: Match Reaction : Sat May 04, 2013 3:47 pm  

Dux wrote:

I don't think that's necessarily true. If you look at what Wigan have done over the last few years, they haven't spent big in terms of recruitment. They've relied mainly on their youth and are reaping the benefits now. The same could be said of Leeds. The difference is they have done it better than us, and when they have dipped into the transfer market they have been smarter about it than we have. I don't think they've spent more than us though.

Yes but when Sam Tomkins head was turned, they paid him big big money to stay - we couldn't keep either graham or Eastmond (don't believe the lifestyle crap, money talks)

They lost finch and lulu and BOUGHT Blake Green and Matty smith.

At top young prop was all purchased from Hull KR.