Re: Utterly Pathetic defence : Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:19 pm  

No1 Saint wrote:

feck off back to your council estate/fishing boat you boring little troll

But he does have a point to a degree.
The saints fan he was replying to was rather full of himself/yourselves.

Re: Utterly Pathetic defence : Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:27 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

It wasn't tiredness. They were exactly the same at Hull KR, but after only 15 minutes when in a 14 point lead (which should have been more had Jamie converted all the tries). So it has nothing to do with tiredness.

IMO it has everything to do with the attitude of some players, who need to get a grip and start working hard for the full 80 minutes. It was so sad to see our young guns tackling their hearts out and Wello nowhere in support and our forwards having a chat under the sticks, so to speak.

I do agree about whinging over the ref though. That made it all look like sour grapes. The last try shouldn't have stood due to Pryce's ball carrying arm being on the floor when tackled but we shouldn't have to rely on the ref. And the coach should have criticised the people who were to blame: the players; in particular the senior players.

I was getting really annoyed with Wello and his arm flapping last night, not to mention LMS and a few others who wanted the glory of the big hit instead of buckling down to a team effort. I didn't applaud them, I walked out as qu8ickly as I could after the final hooter and I don't want to see that kind of 20 minutes again by our team. They let the fans down big time and were unprofessional. As Mark Flanagan said on Twitter, the fans deserved better than what they threw out during the second half. Damn right. So give us better.

I think without the aid of penalties we are fooked. Child gave us everything in the first half and we made the most of it. The same happened in the Salford game. We shouldn't need a piggy back off the ref to make the hard yards.

The moment the penalties go against us we just fall as we can't cope with being under pressure. I've not seen a team fall to pieces like we have been doing.

I agree the we've got to many player are looking for the big hits and trying to look good instead of getting down to the hard work for example LMS.

Re: Utterly Pathetic defence : Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:05 am  

Been watching the game, I think our half backs come out of the game with some real credit. I know you say without the aid of penalties Pete. But actually it was not all penalties. Alot of that territory came from very good kicking, there were penalties, no doubt about it. But we also gained territory by good kicking and kick pressure. Drop outs and the like. TP and Sia also made some decent carries.

If it had not been for our kicking game, then the score would have been alot worse as we would not have had the territory to score those tries. I have to concur that our forwards either don't have the bulk to move the line or are not applying themselves to more the line. Jammer was good at hitting the line getting his head through and then getting the quick play the ball.

Some drives after initally hitting the line, the player was driven backwards. The thing is we have seen all these players drive the ball before and be more effective. Also Jammer did not cover the whole defensive line and make every tackle so they know how to do these jobs as they did them last season. Yes with Jammer leading the way, but he was not doing it on his own.

Re: Utterly Pathetic defence : Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:11 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

Been watching the game, I think our half backs come out of the game with some real credit. I know you say without the aid of penalties Pete. But actually it was not all penalties. Alot of that territory came from very good kicking, there were penalties, no doubt about it. But we also gained territory by good kicking and kick pressure. Drop outs and the like. TP and Sia also made some decent carries.

If it had not been for our kicking game, then the score would have been alot worse as we would not have had the territory to score those tries. I have to concur that our forwards either don't have the bulk to move the line or are not applying themselves to more the line. Jammer was good at hitting the line getting his head through and then getting the quick play the ball.

Some drives after initally hitting the line, the player was driven backwards. The thing is we have seen all these players drive the ball before and be more effective. Also Jammer did not cover the whole defensive line and make every tackle so they know how to do these jobs as they did them last season. Yes with Jammer leading the way, but he was not doing it on his own.

We did kick a lot in the first half and even roby was kicking from the play the ball. I even said to a make that Royce looks to have a game plan and tactics which shocked me.

We couldn't get the ball in second half to carry on with that but also didn't change tactic s to adapt to the game that went in the French favour.

Re: Utterly Pathetic defence : Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:19 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

I have to concur that our forwards either don't have the bulk to move the line or are not applying themselves to more the line. Jammer was good at hitting the line getting his head through and then getting the quick play the ball.

It's my instinct that it is our forwards who are letting the team down both in attack and defence. I think they are lazy because if you watch their legs in attack, more often than not they are not pushing. In defence they are not moving along to provide cover on the line and there were some shocking one on one misses on Friday night. Simmons has a job on his hands to get them working as a pack, as opposed to waiting for Jammer to take the first hit or save the day in defence.

Re: Utterly Pathetic defence : Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:29 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

Been watching the game, I think our half backs come out of the game with some real credit. I know you say without the aid of penalties Pete. But actually it was not all penalties. Alot of that territory came from very good kicking, there were penalties, no doubt about it. But we also gained territory by good kicking and kick pressure. Drop outs and the like. TP and Sia also made some decent carries.

If it had not been for our kicking game, ....

Our kicking game close to the line was quite good. But our kicking for distance was flat out atrocious. How many times did Gaskell split the full back and wingers? How many times did he turn either around? It was like a return to the days of limp-legged Long with the ball spiralling neatly into the hands of wingers who didn't need to move so much as an inch from their assigned positions.

I'm all for going easy on the kids. But we have to remember the other team has no intentions of doing the same. If Gaskell lacks the experience and/or ability on the 5th tackle to move the team forward 40m the opposition isn't going to take pity on him and toss the ball backwards.

Re: Utterly Pathetic defence : Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:20 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Our kicking game close to the line was quite good. But our kicking for distance was flat out atrocious. How many times did Gaskell split the full back and wingers? How many times did he turn either around? It was like a return to the days of limp-legged Long with the ball spiralling neatly into the hands of wingers who didn't need to move so much as an inch from their assigned positions.

I'm all for going easy on the kids. But we have to remember the other team has no intentions of doing the same. If Gaskell lacks the experience and/or ability on the 5th tackle to move the team forward 40m the opposition isn't going to
take pity on him and toss the ball backwards.

Spot on. I lost count of the kicks that went straight to the defence, and yet people say we need him for his kicking game.

Re: Utterly Pathetic defence : Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:24 pm  

wirefox wrote:

Spot on. I lost count of the kicks that went straight to the defence, and yet people say we need him for his kicking game.

But Gaskell did not kick all the balls. This is what gets me, when you look at the kicks going direct into peoples paws, how many came from Gaskell????

I'm yet to see the full game and maybe the 2nd half is a different kettle of fish, but in the first half the kicks that went to hand, tended to come from Lomax, Roby et al.

Re: Utterly Pathetic defence : Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:33 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

But Gaskell did not kick all the balls. This is what gets me, when you look at the kicks going direct into peoples paws, how many came from Gaskell????

Exactly. We had Wilkin (I think he did most of the long kicking didn't he?), Roby, Lomax and Gaskell all kicking at various times. I do know that one of Gaskell's kicks was a splitter but I've yet to watch the game back to see who was responsible for the other kicks.

Gaskell kicked an absolute pearler of a grubber to grab a try. He is really coming on in his short kicking game. Makes me drool - in a rugby league context only! - to think what he is going to be like if he continues to develop all these facets of his game.

Re: Utterly Pathetic defence : Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:40 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

But Gaskell did not kick all the balls. This is what gets me, when you look at the kicks going direct into peoples paws, how many came from Gaskell????

I'm yet to see the full game and maybe the 2nd half is a different kettle of fish, but in the first half the kicks that went to hand, tended to come from Lomax, Roby et al.

Bang on,Gaskell hardly kicked early on,so much so that I commented he must have been playing with a leg injury.