Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:48 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Thornley is Wigan's fault. Why didn't he have a contract? Because they have so many poop overseas players. Why didn't he play first team rugby for Wigan? Because they have too many poop overseas players.

Don't be so harsh, they have the best centre in Super League in George Carmont.

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:27 am  

Having read all this thread (I did have to pop a valium and a couple prozac) I can say you are all barmy.

I really don't know how to put this so I will try a little experiment. List the players between academy and say 23 in the team. We'll use Saints and exclude Kyle:

Wheeler
Foster
Dixon
Armstrong
Ashe
Makinson
ermm.. and Gaskell

Off the top of my head. How many do you think will be snapped up by union (ever)?

Foster can kick from the tee but that's about it. They are made to play league and no union club is gonna poach any of those. And even if they desperatly needed someone they will take maybe one and you have the cover for that.

Also, as people have said, the number of failures in union is massive compared to success. The chances are that Tomkins and EAstmond will make it union and Tomkins will maybe get into the england team (Kyle is too small and not a good enough kicker) but if the RFU go on a mad scramble, they will come up short... again. We will get them back eventually and, as people have said, they will be maximum 25 whenthey return; still a chance of good players.

What I am saying is that Union may take a player a year (1 so far this year) but this does not spell the end of rugby league.

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:09 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Farrell and Ford were children when their parents went over to Union. You can't count them as losses. If their parents had gone to play skittles in Afghanistan, they would probably be doing that now too.

Thornley is Wigan's fault. Why didn't he have a contract? Because they have so many poop overseas players. Why didn't he play first team rugby for Wigan? Because they have too many poop overseas players.

He had a contract just like Eastmond, but chose not to sign another one , like Eastmond, because he had a far better offer from RU, just like Eastmond.
HTH

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:28 pm  

SomersetSaint wrote:

I dont see the club earnings as being a huge draw for players, but the potential earnings of an England player are astronomical. I would imagine that Ashton's earnings at Northampton are now dwarfed by his other income streams from the international game, and the endorsements that can be had. RL will never be able to compete with this, and to even try to would be suicidal for the game.

OK, but how many club england spots are available?
It would be a rare event indeed if they wanted a league player to play in the forwards.
I would suggest they won't be targeting players to fill the scrum half or fly half roles as they'll be considered too specialist for a switch over.
That leaves wingers, centres and full backs available to league players. A maximum of 5 starting players plus squad back up. Call it 10 players max and that's assuminig none of the union players are up to scratch.

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:42 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

OK, but how many club england spots are available?
It would be a rare event indeed if they wanted a league player to play in the forwards.
I would suggest they won't be targeting players to fill the scrum half or fly half roles as they'll be considered too specialist for a switch over.
That leaves wingers, centres and full backs available to league players. A maximum of 5 starting players plus squad back up. Call it 10 players max and that's assuminig none of the union players are up to scratch.

Very few players will have the impact that Ashton has has on the international game, but that won't stop that dream and promise of vast riches being used to tempt players like eastmond. I would suggest that of those five positions you suggest, one or two at most will be filled by ex league players. The scramble to be one of them could be between 20 current league players

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:51 pm  

jdrocket wrote:

Having read all this thread (I did have to pop a valium and a couple prozac) I can say you are all barmy.

I really don't know how to put this so I will try a little experiment. List the players between academy and say 23 in the team. We'll use Saints and exclude Kyle:

Wheeler
Foster
Dixon
Armstrong
Ashe
Makinson
ermm.. and Gaskell[

Off the top of my head. How many do you think will be snapped up by union (ever)?

Foster can kick from the tee but that's about it. They are made to play league and no union club is gonna poach any of those. And even if they desperatly needed someone they will take maybe one and you have the cover for that.

Also, as people have said, the number of failures in union is massive compared to success. The chances are that Tomkins and EAstmond will make it union and Tomkins will maybe get into the england team (Kyle is too small and not a good enough kicker) but if the RFU go on a mad scramble, they will come up short... again. We will get them back eventually and, as people have said, they will be maximum 25 whenthey return; still a chance of good players.

What I am saying is that Union may take a player a year (1 so far this year) but this does not spell the end of rugby league.

Who said anything about the "End of RL"? However, it wouldn't take a lot of departures to seriously damage the sport. Aside from the loss of talent League's already shaky position within the media would be jeopardized. Unfortunately perception is often reality and the perception that League is losing its best talent to Union would make sponsors think very seriously about investing in the sport. Unlike the RFU which is awash with money League cannot afford to be losing investors given the current economic malaise.

Which of the above players are likely to move? I've no idea. But you can bet that Union will be sniffing around ANY youngster who looks like he's got the ability to make a name for himself. Obviously the emphasis will be on backs as they are more likely to make the transition. I don't agree that many will likely fail in the sport. If you look at the big names who have joined the exodus the success rate is far higher than people think. Yes, Hape, Vainikolo, Henry Paul and Farrell didn't become Union superstars. But to say they failed is complete nonsense. All of them made the England team at some point and their demise was as much to do with the paucity of talent surrounding them as their own performances.

Union has learned quickly. They made the mistake of recruiting players past their prime and have now switched their attention to younger players. And they will point to the success of Chris Ashton as proof that their plan is working. In any case, Union can easily afford a few failures. Money is no issue.

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:51 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Who said anything about the "End of RL"? However, it wouldn't take a lot of departures to seriously damage the sport. Aside from the loss of talent League's already shaky position within the media would be jeopardized. Unfortunately perception is often reality and the perception that League is losing its best talent to Union would make sponsors think very seriously about investing in the sport. Unlike the RFU which is awash with money League cannot afford to be losing investors given the current economic malaise.

Which of the above players are likely to move? I've no idea. But you can bet that Union will be sniffing around ANY youngster who looks like he's got the ability to make a name for himself. Obviously the emphasis will be on backs as they are more likely to make the transition. I don't agree that many will likely fail in the sport. If you look at the big names who have joined the exodus the success rate is far higher than people think. Yes, Hape, Vainikolo, Henry Paul and Farrell didn't become Union superstars. But to say they failed is complete nonsense. All of them made the England team at some point and their demise was as much to do with the paucity of talent surrounding them as their own performances.

Union has learned quickly. They made the mistake of recruiting players past their prime and have now switched their attention to younger players. And they will point to the success of Chris Ashton as proof that their plan is working. In any case, Union can easily afford a few failures. Money is no issue.

From another thread.

Wilbred T Pricklepop wrote:

Nothing. He's one player. You're making out like every rugby league player has just packed up and said 'no not playing anymore. I want to play RU because i'll get criticised and written about in the press more and i can play in front of 70k at twickenham instead of old trafford'

If union want to pay silly money for a middle of the road second rower that's their choice.

Since 2004 off the top of my head high profile defects i can think of

Farrell
Vainikolo
Hape
Walker
Smith
Ashton
eastmond

Farrell vainikolo and hape gave their best to league and were no great loss. The only loss was in Union's bank balances.

Walker and smith went then came back pretty quick. I wonder why? how could they turn down all that money media and fame? Rugby uinion is after all the promised land

Ashton and eastmond - fair cop. That's 2 genuine losses in 8 years.

Oh my, it seems our players just can't resist the lure of the promised land.

I think is probably a truer reason for Tomkins depature though.

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:50 pm  

Just read on another post that Thornley's been fired off from Sale for being rubbish. Gone to Leeds RU second team apparently.

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:03 pm  

McClennan wrote:

Just read on another post that Thornley's been fired off from Sale for being rubbish. Gone to Leeds RU second team apparently.

Who's Thornley?

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:09 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Who's Thornley?

wasn't he the big Wigan loss this year.

Big centre?