Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:34 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

Yes, exactly. My original point was that Potter sent us to sleep in the second half (we would often be holding on to a lead that was slipping away from us) whereas Simmons wakes us up (we come to life and start playing). The above scores back that up.

And my point, which you appear to be completely oblivious to, is that it's no good waking us up halfway through a contest when we've already gifted the lead to somebody. Surely it's better to be holding onto a lead after an hour than it is to be chasing a three try difference after twenty minutes.

Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:44 am  

McClennan wrote:

And my point, which you appear to be completely oblivious to, is that it's no good waking us up halfway through a contest when we've already gifted the lead to somebody. Surely it's better to be holding onto a lead after an hour than it is to be chasing a three try difference after twenty minutes.

A bit a of a silly point as neither are good situations, we dont want to be in a position were we have no momentum in the second half but equally we dont want to be chasing down big scores either. My point earlier and the comment made from the players was Potter's HT team talks were shockingly bad, in fact if what KC said was true it's the worse team talk I've ever known in my time in Rugby (And I've been through hundreds of teams talks)

Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:14 pm  

I've read all 5 pages of this so far and its a really good read to see this discussion by knowledgable Saints fans about your former coaches.

As an outsider (Warrington fan) I am surprised to see some people saying they rated Millward above Anderson, IMO Millward was massively overrated and had the good fortune to enjoy 5 years of about a 10 year period when Saints had the best squad in the game. I think if DA had taken over Saints after Hanley then Saints would have been like Man United, won nearly every season, instead of only winning 3 SL titles in that time. It still shocks me that Bradford won 3 titles in that time because you look at their squad against Saints and they were good but in every dimension they were a slightly lesser version of Saints: Lowes/Cunningham; Withers/Wellens; Forshaw/Scully; Deacon/Long etc. I thought Millward built a reputation on controversy and big ego and he rode off the bandwagon of a great team which enabled him to pick up trophies, but he was hopelessly exposed at Wigan as not up to the job. Anderson IMO is the best coach in SL history with Tony Smith close behind.

I would have jumped at the chance to get DA as Warrington coach but I would never have wanted Millward, I doubt Millward could have achieved any more than Cullen, whereas I think DA could have done what Tony Smith has.

As for Potter he took over a team at an awkward time, where there are a lot of great players who have won a lot of trophies, slightly past their best, and its difficult as a new coach who hasn't won the trophies with those players, to manage the transition, look at Liverpool under Souness or Leeds under McDermott. In those circumstances I thought Potter, and now Royce, have done the job well because Saints have been within touching distance of trophies and still are. But neither Potter nor Royce are in the league of MacGuire, Smith or Anderson.

Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:00 pm  

In Potters last season, remember the debacle at home against Hull in the fog? Well I know for a fact that potter was given 3 games to turn it around or he was gone. The club would have put KP in temp charge for the rest of season. Anyway, that week, the players had a meeting and decided to change their style of play back to what worked for them rather than how potter wanted them to play. The players felt they were being embarrassed by their own perfomamces and took matters into their own hands. Things certainly improved and potter kept his job, but it was down to player power rather than Potters coaching. Just looking at him in the ht team talks on sky with the dressing room camera, it was obvious that he offered no motivation whatsoever and had lost the respect of the senior members of the squad.

Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:11 pm  

No1 Saint wrote:

A bit a of a silly point as neither are good situations,

In which rugby league universe is being in the lead after sixty minutes not a good situation?

Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:12 am  

Sthelens RLFC wrote:

So, despite us dusting Leeds on a regular occurance during Andersons reign, he was somehow outgunned in finals only? Seems strange. I agree that we were blown away in 2007. No question. I don't blame Anderson for that performance though. We beat Leeds 2 weeks previously in the qualifying semifinal. Do you honestly believe that Tony Smith could personally turn a 2 point defeat into a 27 point victory 14 days later by coaching nous alone? No chance. We bottled it that night without question.

So a team filled with established winners bottled it? Give over.

Isn't 2007 the year we failed to score a try in the second half of every game against Leeds? They beat us home and away in the league quite comfortably iirc (though we suffered injuries in the game at Headingly).

We were out thought tactically in those grand finals with Leeds, they exposed our slow back three with ease and Anderson didn't/couldn't do a thing about it. It wasn't about bottle, it was about territorial advantage on a bigger pitch than Knowsley Road.

Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:37 am  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

We were out thought tactically in those grand finals with Leeds, they exposed our slow back three with ease and Anderson didn't/couldn't do a thing about it. It wasn't about bottle, it was about territorial advantage on a bigger pitch than Knowsley Road.

Is that what it was about in 2008 too? And 2009 with a different coach?

Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:57 am  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

So a team filled with established winners bottled it? Give over.

Isn't 2007 the year we failed to score a try in the second half of every game against Leeds? They beat us home and away in the league quite comfortably iirc (though we suffered injuries in the game at Headingly).

We were out thought tactically in those grand finals with Leeds, they exposed our slow back three with ease and Anderson didn't/couldn't do a thing about it. It wasn't about bottle, it was about territorial advantage on a bigger pitch than Knowsley Road.

2007 was the year we finished top of the pile and beat Leeds 2 weeks before the Grand Final. It's quite easy to blame our back 3 for the defeat because the most memorable try from that game came from Donald rounding Wellens with ease on his way to a try. I don't recall anyone particularly worrying about our lack of pace (wellens, Gardner, Meli against Webb, smith, Donald) too much before hand. I do remember Saints being red hot favourites and not turnin up on the night. If you saw it that there could be a 29 point turnaround due to a slightly bigger pitch then fair enough. I guess that must have been the reason we went on to lose another 3 straight grand finals as well.

Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:35 am  

McClennan wrote:

In which rugby league universe is being in the lead after sixty minutes not a good situation?

Ok maybe I didnt phrase that right lol , you don't want to be on the wring end of momentum though defending a slim lead

Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:38 am  

The Chief wrote:

In Potters last season, remember the debacle at home against Hull in the fog? Well I know for a fact that potter was given 3 games to turn it around or he was gone. The club would have put KP in temp charge for the rest of season. Anyway, that week, the players had a meeting and decided to change their style of play back to what worked for them rather than how potter wanted them to play. The players felt they were being embarrassed by their own perfomamces and took matters into their own hands. Things certainly improved and potter kept his job, but it was down to player power rather than Potters coaching. Just looking at him in the ht team talks on sky with the dressing room camera, it was obvious that he offered no motivation whatsoever and had lost the respect of the senior members of the squad.

That would tie in with the reaction of the players on the night.