Re: Contracts : Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:15 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Three 30 year olds. Well done.

As I said a few weeks ago, keeping Wellens was always going to happen as it allows Saints up to £50K extra on the salary cap.

You seem to have a OCD with players being 30 or over.

Why does age matter? If your still doing it on the pitch then the shouldn't be a problem.

Carmont and gleeson are no spring chickens and they will prob both want replacing after next season, i bet you won't go for youth, i can see few more aussies coming over.

Deacon is 31 yet your coach said he was very important for wigan in the play offs and also most wigan fans put the loss to leeds in the play off down to him going off injured.

Also, didn't willow ans glass jaw just sign new deals ? im pretty sure they are over 30.

I think you need to give it a rest with bagging saints everytime we sign a player over 30.

Re: New Contracts - Flannery, Meli & Wellens : Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:34 am  

Saddened! wrote:

We have no quality in the outside backs or at fullback. I just wonder whether we are telling the truth about it being the cap that is stopping us. Surely it could just be the fact that the revenue is going to nosedive next season and them making provisions for that. I wouldn't mind that and I guess they couldn't admit or no one would turn up.

But I just think they should be doing more. There seems to be an obsession with promoting youth players, but the vast majority are useless as anything more than squad players. We used to have a very strong squad. That turned into a strong 17 when a few retired or left. Then a strong 13. Now we've not got any world class overseas players in the squad at all and only two, possibly three top quality English players. I'd argue that bar Graham and Roby none of the top sides would want any of our players.

Another possibility is that the club is just paying the kids too much. Eastmond is the only one with obvious quality, but keeping him long term looks almost impossible. The likes of Lomax, Clough, Ashurst, Dixon, Armstrong, Foster etc are all decent SL level squad players but compared to the players they have replaced in our squad they are all noticable steps down in quality.

You're being far too negative here. Shenton is a good player. You may not have seen the best of him at Castleford, but that's because he's been surrounded by lower-end players in a lower-end team. At Saints, I expect him to step up to a much higher level. In many ways, he's reminiscent of Gleeson - not really on anyone's radar at Huddersfield, then came to Saints and was soon GB's No. 1 centre. Foster is also starting to look like a proper SL-standard winger. And the fact that he can knock goals over is a major boost. Meli is suspect in defence, and he's not a flyer, but he scores a fair few, and it's arguable that he's not been as effective as we'd like, because he hasn't had a decent centre inside him - usually a second-row. Put Shenton inside him, and we might see real threat.

And remember that next year our pack is considerably stronger, with Perry and LMS joining a fit Soliola as effectively 3 new forwards with real impact.

As for no other club wanting our players, I'd wager most of SL would be quite happy to sign Wellens, Pryce, Roby, Graham, Shenton, Perry, Soliola, Meli, Wilkin, Puletua and Eastmond. All of them would walk into most of the SL sides.

In fact, the only bit of your post I think is realistic is that it's arguable we're paying young players too much. Wheeler and Lomax just haven't played enough and haven't shown enough to justify the sort of salaries being quoted on this thread. The others, Ashurst, Dixon, Clough, are squad players who shouldn't be on top dollar at all, and even Foster, after making the wing pretty much his own, is too unproven to justofy more than a starting salary.

Re: New Contracts - Flannery, Meli & Wellens : Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:35 am  

As for no other club wanting our players, I'd wager most of SL would be quite happy to sign Wellens, Pryce, Roby, Graham, Shenton, Perry, Soliola, Meli, Wilkin, Puletua and Eastmond. All of them would walk into most of the SL sides.

Th only definite IMO is Graham.

They're the only ones, i think, a top 8 team may pick up.

and eastmond just on potential. He is injured too much.

Re: New Contracts - Flannery, Meli & Wellens : Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:39 pm  

jdrocket wrote:

Th only definite IMO is Graham.

They're the only ones, i think, a top 8 team may pick up.

and eastmond just on potential. He is injured too much.

Talking rubbish!

Wello, Shenton, pryce, eastmond, graham, roby, perry, soliola and LMS are players that nearly every team in the super league would want.

Re: New Contracts - Flannery, Meli & Wellens : Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:05 pm  

In respect to us paying young players too much, don't forget that at the moment this is a sellers market in that area due to the reducing cap restrictions.

If we don't pay them, someone else will, like they did with Emmitt.

Re: New Contracts - Flannery, Meli & Wellens : Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:06 pm  

jdrocket wrote:

Th only definite IMO is Graham.

They're the only ones, i think, a top 8 team may pick up.

and eastmond just on potential. He is injured too much.

Never ceases to amaze me how other teams' supporters fail to notice our best kept secret. The Mighty Atom that is former Man of Steel, James Roby.

Re: New Contracts - Flannery, Meli & Wellens : Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:40 pm  

St pete wrote:

Talking rubbish!

Wello, Shenton, pryce, eastmond, graham, roby, perry, soliola and LMS are players that nearly every team in the super league would want.

If you took your red V specs off, you might agree with me. In fact the Graham thing was generous. He is an amazing prop but he is so niggly and ill disciplined.

As has been mentioned the star player at saints IMO is Roby. I, personally, don't know if he would be snapped up by most super league clubs but i would say he could be a challenge to Kc's legacy. He certainly has potential.

Wellens is too old and lacks pace- maybe a Salford or Cats or Cru cru cru- that ilk.
Shenton- is a good centre and worth the risk. He isn't amazing just yet but could be good really soon. Don't know how many clubs would take the risk though.
Pryce- damaged goods and getting past his best. He hasn't been amazing this season even before injury and Bradford seem nails on to get him soon. That speaks volumes IMO
Eastmond- another with potential. One of the most gifted players with ball in hand many have ever seen. But breaks like a soggy biscuit. Worth a risk but until proven won't be at any top sides.
Graham- spoken about. Potential to be best prop in super league but ATM horrible attitude and niggle player. any team would sign him up now.
Roby- Great but unproven. In Kc's shadow. Don't know how well i am to comment other than that. I thought he was great this year though. Next year i will give a sound assessment of him as hooker though.I predict big things.
Perry- Don't know much. What i do know he is an ageing aussie. Who so far is not well indorsed. Saints have a way of making good on this sort of deal and in a couple of seasons would maybe be snapped up by "nearly every" team. ATM too much of a liablity to risk.
Soliola- again don't know much. He seems like a good player. Grand final performance- would struggle to make wakey grade i feel.
LMS- star prop. Could be good but again wouldn't be alking into most super league clubs. In a couple of seasons, probably. The biggest thing about him is he is good for a londoner.

I hope i gave a fairish assessment of those players. Of course I know nothing compared to a saints fan but to say things like "nearly every team in the super league would want" and "most of super league... happy to sign" you have to assume they would be really beneficial for the team as is. At the moment the players you have mentioned are risks and most super league teams wouldn't make that risk.

These are players with potential but don't trick yourself into believing these are star players that every team is jealous of. I maintain my belief that Graham could walk into any club; Eastmond is a risk worth taking (conditioning will make him) and that shenton is quick and dynamic centre. They are the three that have a chance of walking into most teams in super league.

Imagine Wigan rushing to sign them, or Warrington, or Leeds or even Huddersfield and Hull kr. I just can't see it. Sorry.

Re: New Contracts - Flannery, Meli & Wellens : Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:50 pm  

jdrocket wrote:

Imagine Wigan rushing to sign them, or Warrington, or Leeds or even Huddersfield and Hull kr. I just can't see it. Sorry.

Warrington depends on a former Saints player, btw, and who was it who scored a try for Wigan in the Grand Final? And Hull KR were very happy to sign Fozzard. Handed him back pretty quick, but never mind. And Huddersfield were just as keen to get their hands on Gilmour. And those are all our rejects, never mind our present top of the range players. So I think you know not what you're talking about.

Re: New Contracts - Flannery, Meli & Wellens : Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:06 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Warrington depends on a former Saints player, btw, and who was it who scored a try for Wigan in the Grand Final? And Hull KR were very happy to sign Fozzard. Handed him back pretty quick, but never mind. And Huddersfield were just as keen to get their hands on Gilmour. And those are all our rejects, never mind our present top of the range players. So I think you know not what you're talking about.

There is a world of difference between Gleeson and any of the players mentioned. Briers has matured as excellent player for Warrington and i would argue he has more of a chance of walking into teams ahead of Soliola or LMS. A proven leader is always better than a big forward who then disappears when the going gets tough.
You haven't really answered the question (of sorts) how many of those players do you think would be SNAPPED UP by the top eight? I certainly can't see the current top 4 (or 3 without SAints) fighting for them. They have better players in those positions, apart from Graham.
So, my assertion that Graham is one of the only players to walk into most super league clubs is true.


Please, please don't think I am belittling the Saints academy or there record of buying in players. I have said that given a couple of seasons the perspective of the players will change. But ATM these players don't make a coach salivate.

Also I know enough to work out your riddles (I think).

If you had kept hold of Gleeson and Briers then that would have been two names from your current squad you could be proud of. But you let them go. You have taken a risk. Saints always risk. I hope the risk works out for you, like it has many times before.

Re: New Contracts - Flannery, Meli & Wellens : Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:24 pm  

jdrocket wrote:

A proven leader is always better than a big forward who then disappears when the going gets tough.

Which forward would that be then?

You haven't really answered the question (of sorts) how many of those players do you think would be SNAPPED UP by the top eight? I certainly can't see the current top 4 (or 3 without SAints) fighting for them. They have better players in those positions, apart from Graham.

Then you're out of synch with your fellow Wigan fans who I have seen write that they would snap up Pryce, Eastmond, Roby, Tony P and Graham, even now with their soopa doopa squad which is all conquering and the start of a new dynasty! But the same goes for Warrington, Leeds, Hudds, etc. I've seen fans from all those boards wish they had a Roby, Eastmond, etc, in their teams. You really need to read around a bit before making these assertions you know.

So, my assertion that Graham is one of the only players to walk into most super league clubs is true.

"I say it so it must be true" is always an interesting premise, I find.

Please, please don't think I am belittling the Saints academy or there record of buying in players.

No, of course not! When would a Wigan player belittle Saints' academy products? I would never have imagined such a thing.

If you had kept hold of Gleeson and Briers then that would have been two names from your current squad you could be proud of.

So far as Gleeson is concerned, you need to read up on your RL history mate. As for Briers, in his own words written in the RL press just a few weeks ago, he 'spat his dummy out' and left Saints because he didn't think he was getting the amount of game time he needed at the time he left. We haven't regretted it though because we got Longy. And Longy was much, much better than Briers. His loss, not ours!