Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:24 pm  

No1 Saint wrote:

Some people who post on here know some players so the views have been expressed off the record. Now normally off the record stuff is as a rule honest as there is little to no comeback. When Mick Plodder was coach there was lots and lots of negative off the record stuff and this was confirmed after he left at a testimonial forum I went too (one of Ade's) by several first team players and Cunningham.

So far I'm not impressed with Brown and I'm mystified as to why the players seem to be given they all look bloody clueless on the field.

Fair enough. Off the record is off the record.
you will also know then that Rush was not liked/rated by the players but he seemed to be able to get more out of them which is a bit of a mystery?

Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:26 pm  

saint at wire wrote:

Who says the players think he's a good coach?
Have they been quoted in the press or on air?
Even so, they are hardly likely to say anything else, if they have to work for him after they have stated their views?

I don't think he's lost the plot; I don't think he ever had the plot.

When he talks rugby, he talks sense but when it comes to doing it, he does some crazy stuff.

His team selections are a worry.

Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:33 pm  

St pete wrote:

When he talks rugby, he talks sense but when it comes to doing it, he does some crazy stuff.

His team selections are a worry.

I agree they are just plain dumb at times but the complete lack of a game plan worries me more. We either don't have one or the players are unable to execute it which is odd given the amount of time they must spend practising it.

I've played with some pretty thick players in my time but everyone of them has been able to execute basic plays and do 'their bit' , we have a team of well paid internationals who seem to struggle with simple things like catching, passing, dummy runners, moving up in a line ... it's embarrassing. If a team I'd played in had put in a performance like we did on friday we'd have been flogged in training running boring set moves and running up and down a pitch in a line.

Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:48 pm  

No1 Saint wrote:

I agree they are just plain dumb at times but the complete lack of a game plan worries me more. We either don't have one or the players are unable to execute it which is odd given the amount of time they must spend practising it.

I've played with some pretty thick players in my time but everyone of them has been able to execute basic plays and do 'their bit' , we have a team of well paid internationals who seem to struggle with simple things like catching, passing, dummy runners, moving up in a line ... it's embarrassing. If a team I'd played in had put in a performance like we did on friday we'd have been flogged in training running boring set moves and running up and down a pitch in a line.

On Friday when we had a tap, we did the same move every time. It was Roby taking the tap, he'd pass it to O'Brian, he'd pass it to wello who'd give to to Walmsley (or prop) who'd over run it and take the ball so flat it look awful. We can't do basic rugby.

Hudds was a well structured team so I just don't see why we can't be. I understand the whole pre-season ball work went out the window due to the constant changing of halves. We had prepared with lomax and Gaskell as the halves and we've had many many more since then so it was never going to be great but even our dummy runners can't get it right.

Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:05 pm  

St pete wrote:

When he talks rugby, he talks sense but when it comes to doing it, he does some crazy stuff.

His team selections are a worry.

The picking of Howarth in the back row was almost mind blowing.

Hudds was a well structured team so I just don't see why we can't be. I understand the whole pre-season ball work went out the window due to the constant changing of halves. We had prepared with lomax and Gaskell as the halves and we've had many many more since then so it was never going to be great but even our dummy runners can't get it right.

But even with that, surely the basic structures, especially defensively should have sunk in by now? The fact that Hudds were so well structured to us not being structured at all is what puzzles me most.

Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:11 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

The picking of Howarth in the back row was almost mind blowing.


But even with that, surely the basic structures, especially defensively should have sunk in by now? The fact that Hudds were so well structured to us not being structured at all is what puzzles me most.

And me

Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:33 pm  

I've mentioned before about my suspicions that Brown's heart isn't really in the job. But lets assume for a minute that he is, this period of complete collapse was always on the cards. I told you about it last season. He has to break down a way of playing that we've had since Daniel Anderson, that has been progressively worsened through Potter and Rush. He's then got to get the team playing a certain way. With the players we have, that probably isn't ever going to work. We don't have the big, super aggressive forwards Huddersfield have, we don't have the clever halfbacks Huddersfield have and we don't have the athletic backs Huddersfield have. On that score, the signings he's looking to make seem to make sense, perhaps.

The only complete curveball to all this is the decision to give utterly terrible players who don't fit into Brown's new world at all, like Laffranchi and Wellens, new deals. What is that about?

Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:53 pm  

His team selections are a major worry indeed. Stuart Howarth in the back row is just a nonsense decision, he isn't even a Super League standard player in my opinion.

Our strongest side should be

Lomax
Makinson
Turner
Percival
Meli
Hohaia
O'Brien
Puletua
Roby (c)
Laffranchi
Manu
Jones
Wilkin

Bench

Wellens
Thompson
McCarthy-Scarsbrook
Walmsley

Not the greatest Saints team in the Super League era, infact it will probably go down as one of the worst if not the worst. The thing is Nathan Brown doesn't help himself in some ways at all. Some of his half back combinations have a lot to be desired. Wellens is never a six in the memory of man. If he wants Wellens in the team put him at Full Back and move Lomax to Stand Off. The only reason Id have Wellens on the bench is if the half backs are struggling to create and we could move Lomax into the halves. Im getting sick of his tinkering and him not having the common sense to play players in there natural positions. Rugby League is a simple sport, Nathan Brown makes it look like mission impossible at times.

Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:55 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

The only complete curveball to all this is the decision to give utterly terrible players who don't fit into Brown's new world at all, like Laffranchi and Wellens, new deals. What is that about?

Agree with the view that Brown's heart is no longer in it. His job is pretty much untenable with Rush KC & the senior pros.

Fairly sure the players above were not on his list of keepers & leavers that went to EMcM earlier in the year.
Think this just confirms any radical plans for change will be stifled.

Got the crazy situation now of the establishment making the job more and more untenable , Brown
appearing uber casual and making zany selections which almost say sack me. Add to this senior pros
continually whining and sniping.

Its like a mexican standoff (we could do with one mexican or otherwise) where all parties
seem to be goading the other to pull the trigger.

Can see this coming to a head after the Wigan game.

Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:00 pm  

Gerry Mander wrote:

Can see this coming to a head after the Wigan game.

I do wonder how long he'll get.

McManus made that hollow statement in the press a few weeks ago about how the players aren't performing and need to. It'll be mighty interesting to see how he backs that up. Does he just go to ground and hope we don't notice they are playing terribly, does Brown cop for it and get sacked, or do the players?