Re: Wigan to sign another halfback : Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:44 pm  

I think it's purely about defence. Lance is a much better defensive player than Gaskell and I think that is why he holds down a position.

Rush had to steady the ship and to do that he took out what defensive frailties he could and he is sticking with it.

Whilst Gaskell is better going forwards than Lance, in defence he is no comparison.

Re: Wigan to sign another halfback : Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:20 pm  

St. Etrigan wrote:

Weirdly enough I have been watching both Lomax and Gaskell from amateur days (my son played in the same age range) and while Lomax was always one of the standouts at that age I cannot even remember Gaskell being a threat - infact in his own team there were more threatening players, but I dont let that cloud my opinion and different people mature at different times - I have yet to see Gaskell mature, and the place to mature certainly isnt in the first team at saints - if he gets to play in the next 3 games and shows as much potential as even Wheeler (till the Wigan game), let alone Lomax then by all means I will eat my words - but that seems a long shot to me.

Interesting that. I'm not just saying this but I was chatting with a guy earlier in the season who said the opposite about Gaskell. Not that he was a standout but that he always looked like he had something extra in him, which is also how I see it. At this moment in time he certainly has more about his game than Matty Smith did, who is now playing at the probable minor premiers. If Smith can do that (and I'm not suggesting he's the level we should be aiming at) then why don't we give Gaskell the chance that Smith couldn't get (because we had a great incumbent scrum half, something we appear to be complaining about not having here on a weekly basis)? If these guys don't get the opportunity we're never going to know and after Gaskell's play towards the end of the last season I'd like us to develop him further.

I know nothing of his off the field, training ethics etc. I respect the coaches' right to pick their team based on what they see during the week. I'm not arguing that he must be in the team no matter what. However, if he is meeting his training and off the field commitments then I'm disappointed that we've not tried to bring him on more in the first team. Again, if the coaches have not picked him because they wanted him to develop away from the first team, where fan criticism can be ruthless, then that's fair enough too. If there's a freezing out of him going on then I truly hope that gets resolved because it serves neither Saints nor Lee to be dragging out arguments this long.

On the basis of what I've seen him do on the field he's a player I would like us to develop.

Re: Wigan to sign another halfback : Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:07 pm  

McClennan wrote:

Interesting that. I'm not just saying this but I was chatting with a guy earlier in the season who said the opposite about Gaskell. Not that he was a standout but that he always looked like he had something extra in him, which is also how I see it. At this moment in time he certainly has more about his game than Matty Smith did, who is now playing at the probable minor premiers. If Smith can do that (and I'm not suggesting he's the level we should be aiming at) then why don't we give Gaskell the chance that Smith couldn't get (because we had a great incumbent scrum half, something we appear to be complaining about not having here on a weekly basis)? If these guys don't get the opportunity we're never going to know and after Gaskell's play towards the end of the last season I'd like us to develop him further.

After reading this part of your post I think I realise exactly what my issue is with Gaskell - it would be that he may or may not be the best we currently have (given time who knows) it just that I dont see him being of the calibre to be the type of half back I want to see playing for Saints. I think that given the current place we are at that we are far more likely to accept good as being "good enough" where we should be aiming for great (if its any concellation I also think that Wigan have gone down the "good enough" route for next season).
We have been blessed with 2 great standoff's over the last 10 years in Pryce and Martyn, but we have also had our fair share of good and average ones too. Unfortunately at this time Hohaia isnt proving to be even good, so it opens the door for a good player to come through - personally I think that player should be Wheeler and not Gaskell, but keeping him injury free seems to be a full time job at the minute.

McClennan wrote:

I know nothing of his off the field, training ethics etc. I respect the coaches' right to pick their team based on what they see during the week. I'm not arguing that he must be in the team no matter what. However, if he is meeting his training and off the field commitments then I'm disappointed that we've not tried to bring him on more in the first team. Again, if the coaches have not picked him because they wanted him to develop away from the first team, where fan criticism can be ruthless, then that's fair enough too. If there's a freezing out of him going on then I truly hope that gets resolved because it serves neither Saints nor Lee to be dragging out arguments this long.

On the basis of what I've seen him do on the field he's a player I would like us to develop.

It may be that they are looking to him as a fullback (I understand he has been playing there in the A team) but he doesnt seem to have above average pace, his defence is suspect but he does have halfbacks ball skills and an eye for a gap - so work on his deficiencies and build on the rest of his game - who knows it could work. I like the idea of local lads playing for Saints - if he can be made into a great player no matter what his position then go for it - but do it right.
On the point about possibly being frozen out I agree on that - it does nothing for the team, for the coach's reputation or the player - I dont like to see this type of behaviour anywhere in life.

Re: Wigan to sign another halfback : Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:15 am  

This is officially the most ridiculous thread ever. "Wigan have managed to sign 2 random halfbacks for next season so therefore there must be plenty of good players out there in the league after all"? WTF???? Is this a windup? The fact that Wigan have been forced to downgrade so severely from Leuluai/Deacon & Finch to Smith & Green in just 1 season proves nothing except for incontrovertibly proving the fact that there just simply aren't sufficient quality players out there. Wigan wouldn't have blown their noses over either of these players 3 or 4 years ago, just as we'd never have considered going into a season with the likes of Lomax, Gaskell and Hohaia as our first choice halves back then either. The quality of the league and the available talent in it means that we and the pies just have to make do with mediocrity for an indefinite while instead.

Re: Wigan to sign another halfback : Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:31 am  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

This is officially the most ridiculous thread ever. "Wigan have managed to sign 2 random halfbacks for next season so therefore there must be plenty of good players out there in the league after all"? WTF???? Is this a windup? The fact that Wigan have been forced to downgrade so severely from Leuluai/Deacon & Finch to Smith & Green in just 1 season proves nothing except for incontrovertibly proving the fact that there just simply aren't sufficient quality players out there. Wigan wouldn't have blown their noses over either of these players 3 or 4 years ago, just as we'd never have considered going into a season with the likes of Lomax, Gaskell and Hohaia as our first choice halves back then either. The quality of the league and the available talent in it means that we and the pies just have to make do with mediocrity for an indefinite while instead.

They may not be great, but they are significantly better than what we currently have. Wigan will again be superior to us next season.

Re: Wigan to sign another halfback : Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:37 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

They may not be great, but they are significantly better than what we currently have. Wigan will again be superior to us next season.

Maybe, but to me it makes a lot more sense to persevere with the couple of good young players we already have who have potentially massive upsides with a year or 2's more experience behind them, rather then spending huge amounts of cash on a bidding war for a pair of average performers at best. There's no point in us signing a half for next season and sticking Lomax or Gaskell back into limbo indefinitely unless they will be a quantum leap better than what we have to work with currently i.e. Brough, Chase etc. If Wigan had Gaskell and Lomax on their books, do you think they'dve bothered with signing Smith and Green?

Re: Wigan to sign another halfback : Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:30 pm  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

Maybe, but to me it makes a lot more sense to persevere with the couple of good young players we already have who have potentially massive upsides with a year or 2's more experience behind them, rather then spending huge amounts of cash on a bidding war for a pair of average performers at best. There's no point in us signing a half for next season and sticking Lomax or Gaskell back into limbo indefinitely unless they will be a quantum leap better than what we have to work with currently i.e. Brough, Chase etc. If Wigan had Gaskell and Lomax on their books, do you think they'dve bothered with signing Smith and Green?

Yes they would probably still have signed one of them. Just as Leeds did when they signed Dunemann in 2003 whilst having Burrow, Sinfield and McGuire in their squad.

Re: Wigan to sign another halfback : Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:32 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Yes they would probably still have signed one of them. Just as Leeds did when they signed Dunemann in 2003 whilst having Burrow, Sinfield and McGuire in their squad.

OK then - let's modify the question slightly to what it should probably have been in the first place: would Wigan have signed Green or Smith if they already had Lomax, Gaskell, Wheeler (still with an outside chance of fulfilling his potential) and Hohaia (who we're stuck with hovering around the halves in some capacity) on their books? The answer to that question is no.

Re: Wigan to sign another halfback : Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:10 pm  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

OK then - let's modify the question slightly to what it should probably have been in the first place: would Wigan have signed Green or Smith if they already had Lomax, Gaskell, Wheeler (still with an outside chance of fulfilling his potential) and Hohaia (who we're stuck with hovering around the halves in some capacity) on their books? The answer to that question is no.

No, because if Wigan had those players, Wheeler would have been released and Hohaia would have been moved to fullback (Assuming they were also cursed with a lead weight at fullback).

Re: Wigan to sign another halfback : Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:13 pm  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

OK then - let's modify the question slightly to what it should probably have been in the first place: would Wigan have signed Green or Smith if they already had Lomax, Gaskell, Wheeler (still with an outside chance of fulfilling his potential) and Hohaia (who we're stuck with hovering around the halves in some capacity) on their books? The answer to that question is no.

I see you have changed your argument.

The answer is still yes because two of those (take your pick) would have been binned. Stick to watching MK Dons you probably understand that game better.