Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:43 pm  

saint at wire wrote:

He is not that strict Pete when he allows player power to change his selection and tactics?
The only word for that is weak.

It's only what I was told and that was by someone who'll be working with brown next year.

Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:44 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

What's that got to do with anything?

It's a sign of the times as I so described.

SaintsFan wrote:

Since when did we start this stupid notion of setting the benchmark as the NRL?

Well it is the best Rugby League competition in the world and could well be described as the best Rugby comp in the world. Are you disputing the NRL being the comp we'd aspire our own to be like. God knows what I wouldn't give to see mostly competitive games each and every week

SaintsFan wrote:

Look at Jammer, the Burgess brothers, Widdop for God's sake (forgotten and unattended in Halifax, right on the Yorkshire clubs' doorsteps). They all look as good down under as they did here. We just need to stop looking over there and instead look closer to home. There will be some gems we are missing. Look at Chris Hill over at Warrington or Hardaker at Leeds. Both Championship players until very recently. I am extremely glad the salary cap has escalated in Australia and the pound is useless because we might stop this stupid obsession with NRL players then and instead give our home grown talent a chance.

A little OT. But I agree, I think we've got a whole load more players who could make it over there. I think it's all well and good giving homegrown it's chance but quality certainly has dipped recently with that practice. We as a nation continue to struggle to produce quality outside backs in any great number. I know by filling the gaps with Aussies doesn't help that fact. But if it's between watching a quality Aussie who knows his centre play, versus some plodding English backrow convert who's never going to make it in a months of Sunday's, I know which I'm going to favor. It's about finding the correct balance.

Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:50 pm  

saint at wire wrote:

He is not that strict Pete when he allows player power to change his selection and tactics?
The only word for that is weak.

Or tactical. If he is in a power struggle with the players then he has few options. According to Pete, for instance, player power forced Simmons out as they didn't like the way he was coaching them. That's just a story, granted, but if true then that is no different. For some reason, players must be kept happy at all costs and if they gang up against the coach, the coach is up the creek without a paddle. All he can do is exactly what Brown did: he played them. They wanted change? Ok, they can have it, just before a knock out game, knowing what the outcome would be for them (because he knows the limitations of his players, perhaps unlike his players) and he's gone anyway. I think that was a smart move if his players have indeed been playing power games.

Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:50 pm  

saint at wire wrote:

He is not that strict Pete when he allows player power to change his selection and tactics?
The only word for that is weak.

Didn't Nathan Brown give Trent barrat a slap on the pitch because he didn't do as he told? That is being over strict.

Is it bad coaching to listen to your players every now and then? Maybe he listened and said lets give it a go.

If hudds won on Sunday and Brown made the same comments, would people then be saying, it's good a coach listens to his players.

Was DA a bad coach when the players told him they wanted to us certain millward plays in attack and he agreed?

Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:53 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Or tactical. If he is in a power struggle with the players then he has few options. According to Pete, for instance, player power forced Simmons out as they didn't like the way he was coaching them. That's just a story, granted, but if true then that is no different. For some reason, players must be kept happy at all costs and if they gang up against the coach, the coach is up the creek without a paddle. All he can do is exactly what Brown did: he played them. They wanted change? Ok, they can have it, just before a knock out game, knowing what the outcome would be for them (because he knows the limitations of his players, perhaps unlike his players) and he's gone anyway. I think that was a smart move if his players have indeed been playing power games.

I've never once said player power got super Royce the sack, i did say they didn't agree with his crazy tactics and certain other stuff.

Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:00 pm  

LovesToSpooge wrote:

Are you disputing the NRL being the comp we'd aspire our own to be like.

I watch the NRL every week on Premier. I don't want us to be like that, no. If I wanted to watch wrestlemania then I would! Only those games that have a faster PTB are good in the NRL. Many games are like watching paint dry they are that slow and not exactly skilfull it has to be said. Some of them are far from competitive too. There have been plenty of lopsided scores this season, some into the 40 points on one side.

God knows what I wouldn't give to see mostly competitive games each and every week

That's a different argument though. We can have competitive games without them being played Aussie style. We need to raise the standard in the lower clubs within our own game according to our style. We don't need to keep trying to emulate the Australians.

We as a nation continue to struggle to produce quality outside backs in any great number. I know by filling the gaps with Aussies doesn't help that fact. But if it's between watching a quality Aussie who knows his centre play, versus some plodding English backrow convert who's never going to make it in a months of Sunday's, I know which I'm going to favor. It's about finding the correct balance.

You answer the problem yourself really. Firstly, we don't know how many quality outside backs our game produces because before any young guns can get to grips with professional rugby we drop them for antipodeans or keep hold of ageing second raters way too long or play players out of position. That's all down to clubs and coaches, not the talent available. I do hope we are forced to look to these shores for our talent. We might notice it then because I'm sure we haven't actually bothered for some time.

Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:02 pm  

St pete wrote:

I've never once said player power got super Royce the sack, i did say they didn't agree with his crazy tactics and certain other stuff.

You haven't used the words 'player' and 'power' together like that no but you have certainly said they were unhappy with his tactics and 'certain other stuff'. Same difference given that he got the boot.

Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:02 pm  

St pete wrote:

Didn't Nathan Brown give Trent barrat a slap on the pitch because he didn't do as he told? That is being over strict.

Is it bad coaching to listen to your players every now and then? Maybe he listened and said lets give it a go.

If hudds won on Sunday and Brown made the same comments, would people then be saying, it's good a coach listens to his players.

Was DA a bad coach when the players told him they wanted to us certain millward plays in attack and he agreed?

That was a coach preared to learn things. It was the opposite with mr brown methinks.

Anyway I'm not sure the players wern't right. Lightweight pack, one HB? Gawd help us

Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:04 pm  

saint at wire wrote:

Anyway I'm not sure the players wern't right. Lightweight pack, one HB?

Sounds familiar ...

Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:07 pm  

saint at wire wrote:

That was a coach preared to learn things. It was the opposite with mr brown methinks.

Anyway I'm not sure the players wern't right. Lightweight pack, one HB? Gawd help us

He should fit in at saints then, we've played 4 years with one centre, we have two ex fullbacks as our halfbacks, we've got a backrow row as our main starting prop.