Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:22 pm  

To be fair, she has suffered massive build up in expectations only to be downed at the last hurdle. I recall one of my relations growing up seeing Saints go to Wembley and getting disappointment after disappointment at the hands of halifax and Wigan.

It does have an impact.

Where as I kinda saw us as permanent bridesmaids for about 5 years, then winners and now it's back to where we where permanent bridesmaids. So this is all I ever knew before SL. It's like watching Saints of old in terms of league position, but just lacking that creative attacking flow we had when we were permanently chasing Wigan.

Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:51 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

Well my squad for next year would be this, I've put the players in order of preference if there is more than one for each position

FB: Makinson/Lomax
Wing: Ade Swift/Foster ( I would not be looking to buy in a wing with more pressing positions)
Centre: Turner Jones/Wheeler (I'm assuming Shenton will find another club, but if not he would go in before Jones)
Halves: New Controlling halfback, Gaskell/Lomax (Lomax with Gaskell taking a role at LF would be preferable for 3 pivots)
Prop: New Prop, LMS
Hooker: Roby
2nd Row: Manu, Sia (Sia may move up to prop though with Brown open to moving players around which would take away the need for a 2nd new prop)
LF: Gaskell/Wilkin/Flanaghan (I would prefer a ball playing LF and would let all 3 have a chance to gain a place)

Subs:

TP, Wilkin, Flanaghan, Clough, New Prop, Perry

Brown's third pivot is the full back isn't it?

Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:51 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

To be fair, she has suffered massive build up in expectations only to be downed at the last hurdle. I recall one of my relations growing up seeing Saints go to Wembley and getting disappointment after disappointment at the hands of halifax and Wigan.

That was the story I grew up with, except my Dad had the 1950s and 1960s to look back on (what he called the glory years). I've watched the occasional Saints match on and off all my life but only on telly with the exception of one trip to Wembley to watch us get beaten by Halifax. The only finals win I've seen live was against Hull at the new Wembley. I was determined to go as I had a feeling it would be the last Challenge Cup final I would see us in for some time! As for the Grand Finals they have been a depressing experience but the last one was by far the worst as it had our name on it but for the injuries.

Nobody can accuse me of being a glory hunter anyway!

Re: St Helens squad next year : Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:59 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

Brown's third pivot is the full back isn't it?

Yes but he has tried one at LF too, so he maybe looking at trying to push the game on. The game does have cycles, when everyone adapts to one formula it's the team that moves that on that gets ahead.

Re: St Helens squad next year : Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:42 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

Yes but he has tried one at LF too, so he maybe looking at trying to push the game on. The game does have cycles, when everyone adapts to one formula it's the team that moves that on that gets ahead.

Yep , I think with Greg Eden at fullback and Grix moved to 6 he wanted to keep a 3rd pivot so he used 13. Not really seen enough of Eden to say but maybe he seems him more a runner/individual player than a pivot.

Re: St Helens squad next year : Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:56 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

Yes but he has tried one at LF too, so he maybe looking at trying to push the game on. The game does have cycles, when everyone adapts to one formula it's the team that moves that on that gets ahead.

Hasn't this coincided with their loss of form though?

We've got players who can play as a third pivot at full back (Lomax especially) and I'm not sure we have a big enough pack to be able to lose the extra weight a big loose forward gives us.

Re: St Helens squad next year : Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:36 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

Hasn't this coincided with their loss of form though?

We've got players who can play as a third pivot at full back (Lomax especially) and I'm not sure we have a big enough pack to be able to lose the extra weight a big loose forward gives us.

Lomax could play as a pivot at FB, but that may not be the way that we decide to go. In a way we don't know what Brown will bring to the team. I think if we start like huddersfield start then the drop off would not be the same or not to the same effect.

With regards to the pack, I think we could loose some weight if we had the weight in the right places, if Manu and another prop are added, that would balance out nicely with a more lean LF. Also there is no saying that just because the loose is skillful they need to be fly weight. I would give examples of big tough LF's but then people would jump on it saying I was trying to compare Gaskell to them.

Re: St Helens squad next year : Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:05 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

Lomax could play as a pivot at FB, but that may not be the way that we decide to go. In a way we don't know what Brown will bring to the team. I think if we start like huddersfield start then the drop off would not be the same or not to the same effect.

With regards to the pack, I think we could loose some weight if we had the weight in the right places, if Manu and another prop are added, that would balance out nicely with a more lean LF. Also there is no saying that just because the loose is skillful they need to be fly weight. I would give examples of big tough LF's but then people would jump on it saying I was trying to compare Gaskell to them.

The thought of moving Gaskell to loose strikes me as a similar argument as the ones that people put forward when they wanted Pryce moving to loose, which IMO was a bad idea then. Whilst he may end up at loose later in his career, I'm just not sure it's such a good idea now, especially when it's the physical aspect of the game he's been struggling with (understandably so) since getting into the first team.

The worry for me under your proposal is that there doesn't appear to be a plethora of big pack men available to bolster our pack. But I also think that the full back has more freedom to pick holes in defences than the loose forward has.

Of course as with all things, this is just us surmising and putting thoughts forward, we'll see what Brown does when he comes in.

Re: St Helens squad next year : Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:06 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

The thought of moving Gaskell to loose strikes me as a similar argument as the ones that people put forward when they wanted Pryce moving to loose, which IMO was a bad idea then. Whilst he may end up at loose later in his career, I'm just not sure it's such a good idea now, especially when it's the physical aspect of the game he's been struggling with (understandably so) since getting into the first team.

The worry for me under your proposal is that there doesn't appear to be a plethora of big pack men available to bolster our pack. But I also think that the full back has more freedom to pick holes in defences than the loose forward has.

Of course as with all things, this is just us surmising and putting thoughts forward, we'll see what Brown does when he comes in.

Well we have to do something before we can start moaning about next years selections and signings.

I'm thinking of starting a thread asking people how long they think it will be before we start giving up on the 2013 season and looking at which players we can offload for 2014.

I'm thinking 1 week into the season but that maybe a tad optimistic.

Re: St Helens squad next year : Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:28 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

Well we have to do something before we can start moaning about next years selections and signings.

I'm thinking of starting a thread asking people how long they think it will be before we start giving up on the 2013 season and looking at which players we can offload for 2014.

I'm thinking 1 week into the season but that maybe a tad optimistic.

1st loss