Re: Shenton to HKR : Thu May 17, 2012 10:44 am  

you would have to wait until 2013 to pay them off unless you have cap space left for 2012......payments made in 2012 would count as they have played in 2012

Re: Shenton to HKR : Thu May 17, 2012 11:14 am  

Allez wrote:

He may well have done - nobody actually knows.

He may well have been mischief making but when he signed for us Mr Shenton was widely quoted as telling his Cas team mates that it was an unbelievable deal. Like you I hope that wasn't the case as there was nothing in his pedigree that afforded him that kind of status in my view. Good yes, £100k+ a year good....no way.

None of us know the facts - despite many claiming to. I know what you mean by wanting more of a guarantee at that cost but there's none of those even if we ended up paying someone twice that amount.

There are no guarantees - but you can certainly play the probabilities game knowing you stand a very good chance of making the right investment. I mean, sure - one chance out of ten Shenton might prove more effective than Jamie Lyon (who gets squashed flat by a falling piano whilst out for a run) for the same money. But that's a risk I'm sure most people would be willing to take.

Re: Shenton to HKR : Thu May 17, 2012 12:09 pm  

pie.warrior wrote:

you would have to wait until 2013 to pay them off unless you have cap space left for 2012......payments made in 2012 would count as they have played in 2012

Yup, it would have to be at the end of the season.

Re: Shenton to HKR : Thu May 17, 2012 12:14 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Not unless McManus disappeared down the rabbit hole and into some fantasy world of make-believe. There are living legends who didn't draw anywhere near that mark when the club was dominating SL! Shenton showed some promise - but £120k is the kind of figure you'd be looking to invest in guaranteed deliverables.

Of course Shenton will be on £120k (at least). Saints were in competition with a number of clubs for his signature - when players are in that position they tend to negotiate contracts that contain a premium, if you pay transfer fees you can avoid this.


I would be interested to hear which players you consider to be higher earners at Saints than Shenton and how that all balances out for a 25 man squad equalling the salary cap.

Re: Shenton to HKR : Thu May 17, 2012 12:25 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

There are no guarantees - but you can certainly play the probabilities game knowing you stand a very good chance of making the right investment. I mean, sure - one chance out of ten Shenton might prove more effective than Jamie Lyon (who gets squashed flat by a falling piano whilst out for a run) for the same money. But that's a risk I'm sure most people would be willing to take.

Agree completely Mugwump - probabilty has to play a part or else nobody would sign anyone. Trouble is though that I think 'probability' is estimated on the basis of who the Chairman likes rather than a Chi-Square test. I am just not sure Shenton's pre-Saints potential actually warranted the 'guarantee' that his alleged salary would indicate he had.

On a broader note, if my reading of the situation and any of these Turner/Manu/Shenton/Hohaia/Perry/Laffranchi rumours are true then I applaud the shift in attitude towards players deemed not to be the right fit and hope it doesn't stop there as per some of the comments made in your other post. I also hope and trust that Nathan Brown is at the heart of it - it may take him 2 or 3 years but I read it that he's a coach that gets what he wants.

Hope the tea leaves are right.

Re: Shenton to HKR : Thu May 17, 2012 1:49 pm  

Paul Youane wrote:

Of course Shenton will be on £120k (at least). Saints were in competition with a number of clubs for his signature - when players are in that position they tend to negotiate contracts that contain a premium, if you pay transfer fees you can avoid this.


I would be interested to hear which players you consider to be higher earners at Saints than Shenton and how that all balances out for a 25 man squad equalling the salary cap.

i think a wire fan mentioning the salary cap a bit rich

Re: Shenton to HKR : Thu May 17, 2012 3:20 pm  

Shenton is halfway through a three-year contract at St Helens but is thought to have been given permission to talk to other clubs and Hull and Hull KR could both rival the Tigers for his signature. "We're in the market for any good centres and obviously he comes into that category but we're not advanced in any talks with Michael," said Millward. "Our priority is to sign two centres and we're very active in the market place." http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-league/ ... w-recruits

Shenton is halfway through a three-year contract at St Helens but is thought to have been given permission to talk to other clubs and Hull and Hull KR could both rival the Tigers for his signature. "We're in the market for any good centres and obviously he comes into that category but we're not advanced in any talks with Michael," said Millward. "Our priority is to sign two centres and we're very active in the market place." http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-league/ ... w-recruits

Re: Shenton to HKR : Thu May 17, 2012 3:29 pm  

Paul Youane wrote:

Of course Shenton will be on £120k (at least). Saints were in competition with a number of clubs for his signature - when players are in that position they tend to negotiate contracts that contain a premium, if you pay transfer fees you can avoid this.


I would be interested to hear which players you consider to be higher earners at Saints than Shenton and how that all balances out for a 25 man squad equalling the salary cap.

I'd imagine our highest earners are probably some of our poorest performers, but I have no sneaky talks in the pub to back this up.

ie Perry, Lance, Shenton, LMS, (Roby, TP, Sia)

Re: Shenton to HKR : Thu May 17, 2012 3:57 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

I'd imagine our highest earners are probably some of our poorest performers, but I have no sneaky talks in the pub to back this up.

ie Perry, Lance, Shenton, LMS, (Roby, TP, Sia)

Getting the first 3 off the cap at the end of the year would do us a world of good certainly provided we can get another prop and centre from somewhere who can do a job and be a bit more VFM. I would imagine that LMS is on less than any of those other names (and LeFrank) and has looked really good in flashes - he might come good yet.

Re: Shenton to HKR : Thu May 17, 2012 5:10 pm  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

Getting the first 3 off the cap at the end of the year would do us a world of good certainly provided we can get another prop and centre from somewhere who can do a job and be a bit more VFM. I would imagine that LMS is on less than any of those other names (and LeFrank) and has looked really good in flashes - he might come good yet.

The ones in brackets are because I don't rate them as under performing. LMS I'm still not certain on, sometimes is barn storming other times is annonymous, so I'm fair to middling on LMS