Re: Wigan tickets : Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:40 pm  

I travel from Leeds for Matches, and that can be a mare at the best of times, so you have my total sympathy having to come from Northampton. It's not so much the journey there, it's the journey back.

I understand that people are fishing on the back of an earlier thread about the playoffs, but lets face it alot of people struggled to travel the few minutes to Widnes last year, so northampton may not like the system but still puts his money and time where his mouth is.

Re: Wigan tickets : Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:50 am  

Anyone who has to travel long distances on a Friday night on Britain's motorway network to watch Saints has my sympathy, but also has my admiration. I can fully understand why people would pick and choose matches to watch. I also concede that the playoffs (especially in their current format) have diminished the meaning of the regular season fixtures.

However...

I wouldn't class them as meaningless. NS states that the regular season games are meaningless friendlies (or 85% of them are), and states this as FACT. This isn't FACT, it's opinion.

Here are a few facts - if you only win the 15% meaningful games (by implication, if 85% are meaningless), you will have accrued 8 league points (27 * 15% * 2) which won't qualify you for the playoffs. Therefore, to qualify for the playoffs, you must win some of the other games, which implies they must have meaning.

Also, there are 4 trophies to play for each season - Challenge Cup, Grand Final, World Club Championship, and League Leaders Shield. To win the LLS, you must have the highest number of points after the regular season fixtures - therefore, in pursuit of this trophy, every regular season fixture is important. That is fact. It is opinion (and admittedly, the general consensus) that the LLS has very little stature when compared to the CC and GF - but it is still a trophy to play for.

In my opinion, the top 8 playoff format does spoil the league (top 5 format was the best system IMHO). Leeds winning from 5th last year was an amazing achievement, but that won't be the norm, and I am pretty confident that this year's GF winner won't come from outside the top 4. However, there is very little difference finishing anywhere in the top 4, other than home advantage for the top 2 - but we showed that home advantage doesn't always count for a lot, as we beat Wigan away (and Leeds beat Wire away). What this means is that a loss in a regular season fixture isn't as crucial as previous years, as long as you earn enough league points in other games. That doesn't make them meaningless - just that they have less meaning

So, in my opinion, the regular season fixtures are not meaningless friendlies. Not stating this as fact, just my opinion.

NS - as I said, I completely understand why you would pick and choose matches - I did the same when I lived in Leamington Spa.

Re: Wigan tickets : Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:01 am  

hotpot100 wrote:

Anyone who has to travel long distances on a Friday night on Britain's motorway network to watch Saints has my sympathy, but also has my admiration. I can fully understand why people would pick and choose matches to watch. I also concede that the playoffs (especially in their current format) have diminished the meaning of the regular season fixtures.

However...

I wouldn't class them as meaningless. NS states that the regular season games are meaningless friendlies (or 85% of them are), and states this as FACT. This isn't FACT, it's opinion.

Here are a few facts - if you only win the 15% meaningful games (by implication, if 85% are meaningless), you will have accrued 8 league points (27 * 15% * 2) which won't qualify you for the playoffs. Therefore, to qualify for the playoffs, you must win some of the other games, which implies they must have meaning.

Also, there are 4 trophies to play for each season - Challenge Cup, Grand Final, World Club Championship, and League Leaders Shield. To win the LLS, you must have the highest number of points after the regular season fixtures - therefore, in pursuit of this trophy, every regular season fixture is important. That is fact. It is opinion (and admittedly, the general consensus) that the LLS has very little stature when compared to the CC and GF - but it is still a trophy to play for.

In my opinion, the top 8 playoff format does spoil the league (top 5 format was the best system IMHO). Leeds winning from 5th last year was an amazing achievement, but that won't be the norm, and I am pretty confident that this year's GF winner won't come from outside the top 4. However, there is very little difference finishing anywhere in the top 4, other than home advantage for the top 2 - but we showed that home advantage doesn't always count for a lot, as we beat Wigan away (and Leeds beat Wire away). What this means is that a loss in a regular season fixture isn't as crucial as previous years, as long as you earn enough league points in other games. That doesn't make them meaningless - just that they have less meaning

So, in my opinion, the regular season fixtures are not meaningless friendlies. Not stating this as fact, just my opinion.

NS - as I said, I completely understand why you would pick and choose matches - I did the same when I lived in Leamington Spa.

Top Post

Re: Wigan tickets : Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:11 am  

(Back on topic) Forgot to say that I phoned up Saints to get a ticket for my Dad this morning. Only unallocated seating left, and of that, Block B in the North has sold out.

Re: Wigan tickets : Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:08 pm  

hotpot100 wrote:

Anyone who has to travel long distances on a Friday night on Britain's motorway network to watch Saints has my sympathy, but also has my admiration. I can fully understand why people would pick and choose matches to watch. I also concede that the playoffs (especially in their current format) have diminished the meaning of the regular season fixtures.

However...

I wouldn't class them as meaningless. NS states that the regular season games are meaningless friendlies (or 85% of them are), and states this as FACT. This isn't FACT, it's opinion.

Here are a few facts - if you only win the 15% meaningful games (by implication, if 85% are meaningless), you will have accrued 8 league points (27 * 15% * 2) which won't qualify you for the playoffs. Therefore, to qualify for the playoffs, you must win some of the other games, which implies they must have meaning.

Also, there are 4 trophies to play for each season - Challenge Cup, Grand Final, World Club Championship, and League Leaders Shield. To win the LLS, you must have the highest number of points after the regular season fixtures - therefore, in pursuit of this trophy, every regular season fixture is important. That is fact. It is opinion (and admittedly, the general consensus) that the LLS has very little stature when compared to the CC and GF - but it is still a trophy to play for.

In my opinion, the top 8 playoff format does spoil the league (top 5 format was the best system IMHO). Leeds winning from 5th last year was an amazing achievement, but that won't be the norm, and I am pretty confident that this year's GF winner won't come from outside the top 4. However, there is very little difference finishing anywhere in the top 4, other than home advantage for the top 2 - but we showed that home advantage doesn't always count for a lot, as we beat Wigan away (and Leeds beat Wire away). What this means is that a loss in a regular season fixture isn't as crucial as previous years, as long as you earn enough league points in other games. That doesn't make them meaningless - just that they have less meaning

So, in my opinion, the regular season fixtures are not meaningless friendlies. Not stating this as fact, just my opinion.

NS - as I said, I completely understand why you would pick and choose matches - I did the same when I lived in Leamington Spa.

Oh, this is getting boring now....

The "85%" refers to all 27 league games (which is about the percentage they are of all "competitive" games played each season). I say, and it is absolute fact, that all of the results of those 27 games, as a single block entity, are completely meaningless. The other 15% (CC and playoff games) do contribute to trophy winning success and so do count as "meaningful". You (and the Wigan fans who bought the commemorative mugs when they finally finished top 2 years ago) can fool yourself that finishing 1st and winning the hubcap is a worthwhile recognised achievement and worth jeopardising your chances of winning the other 2 trophies to go for, but you're in self-denial. Noone gives a damn who finishes where in the league now as long as they're in the top 8, certainly not the RL.

A club like Saints will finish in the top 8 every season, no slight question about it given how well run and well supported a club we are, how little playing talent there is in the league and how weak most of the opposition is. We will finish top 8, whatever individual results go for and against us along the way. The way the trophy shakeup is setup at present means that finishing 8th is 99% as good as finishing 1st. That renders all individual results accrued along the way to the fait accompli of that top 8th finish pointless on an individual basis. There is no glory in finishing top and no point in doing so. It is much better to cruise through the season, finish 6th and save your energies for the playoffs if glory and recognised trophies are what you're after.

It doesn't matter that we lost to Catalans last week as we will still finish top 8 regardless. It doesn't matter if we get a ballsy, hard-fought win in difficult circumstances at the flatpack in a few weeks' time as we will still finish top 8 regardless. It doesn't matter if we go on a briiliant, unstoppable run of sweeping, free-flowing form and win our next 10 games 80-0 as we will still finish top 8 regardless. It doesn't matter if we scrap, bump and grind our way to 3 unconvincing and lucky wins in our next 10 games and get blown away in the rest of them as we will still finish top 8 regardless.

It doesn't matter what we do or how we perform in any individual game out of the 27 because we will still finish top 8 regardless!!!!!

Is this enough for you now or do I need to bang your head against a desk as resoundingly and repeatedly as I feel like doing with my own to drive this basic point home?

Re: Wigan tickets : Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:12 pm  

Rommel wrote:

Top Post

Just about sums up what I was trying to say too.

Re: Wigan tickets : Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:29 pm  

BackrowSaint wrote:

Just about sums up what I was trying to say too.

Me too.

It's funny how Hotpot was actually supporting some of NS' argument only for NS to have a go at him/her. NS has a massive chip on their shoulder IMO.

Re: Wigan tickets : Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:55 pm  

mistermoo wrote:

Me too.

It's funny how Hotpot was actually supporting some of NS' argument only for NS to have a go at him/her. NS has a massive chip on their shoulder IMO.

A chip on my shoulder? You're bloody well right there's a chip on my shoulder! Why wouldn't there be when the opportunity to get excited about supporting my beloved team of 40+ years for 85% of the season has been stolen from me by agenda'ed loony scumbags who don't give a flying whatsit about the future of my team or of my sport at all? It makes me absolutely livid as hell every time I think about it...

Re: Wigan tickets : Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:36 pm  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

A chip on my shoulder? You're bloody well right there's a chip on my shoulder! Why wouldn't there be when the opportunity to get excited about supporting my beloved team of 40+ years for 85% of the season has been stolen from me by agenda'ed loony scumbags who don't give a flying whatsit about the future of my team or of my sport at all? It makes me absolutely livid as hell every time I think about it...

Sorry you feel that way, in contrast I was excited at the Salford game, the Hull KR game and especially the Catalans game. These games were in the magical 85% of fixtures that don't matter.

I think if you were to ask the fans the opposing teams they would have been excited too.

Re: Wigan tickets : Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:09 pm  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

A chip on my shoulder? You're bloody well right there's a chip on my shoulder! Why wouldn't there be when the opportunity to get excited about supporting my beloved team of 40+ years for 85% of the season has been stolen from me by agenda'ed loony scumbags who don't give a flying whatsit about the future of my team or of my sport at all? It makes me absolutely livid as hell every time I think about it...

Perhaps you're just a miserable so and so? Worth a thought.