Re: Team for Next Season : Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:00 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

With Saints fans like you, who needs Pie Eaters eh?

You mean bring honest at backing everything saints do?

Listen saintsfan, I live and breath St Helens rlfc. I go every game possible and spend a fortune every year in the saints shop on stuff fir my lad. I'll never ever stop watching them no matter how bad they go but IMO it's worrying times and I'm not going to back things that I dont agree with.

We are doing recruitment on the cheap and hiding behind the whole youth thing.


I'd rather the club be honest and tell us what's really happening. We are broke. Simple as that.

Re: Team for Next Season : Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:01 pm  

I am not overly concerned with the departure of Pryce.

He has been an excellent player for us, however he has missed much of the last two seasons through injury and as a result we have played a lot of RL without him and done pretty well.

The loss of Pryce, Graham and Eastmond in one season is a blow, make no bones about it.

I'm sure the club were looking to build the teams long term success around Graham and Eastmond.
Luckily we have replacements coming through who can do Eastmonds job, perhaps not to the same level of X factor, but who are still very talented young players.
Graham on the other hand cannot be replaced directly so you have to adapt the squad somewhat.
Lafranchi is a top class signing on paper, and despite playing most of his RL in the second row he has been playing at prop this season. I also always thought the signings this year of Perry and LMS were actually to cover the probable departure of Graham at the end of this year.

Looking ahead many fans are now saying we will be finishing mid table next year, I think that is just typical ignorance from fans who are not aware of events happening at other clubs. You would think that everyone else is signing world beaters and only Saints are releasing players.
The reality is that Saints major rivals eg Wigan, Wire and leeds all have issues themselves to look at.

For Wigan the loss of McGuire at season end is potentially the greatest loss any club will suffer this season.
As yet we dont know who will replace him, but if it isnt a starting coach from the NRL, then i cant see Wigan hitting the same levels of intensity.
On top of his departure its also been confirmed that Coley is retiring and Hoffman is heading down under. So thats two gone from their pack with no apparent external replacements. They also lost Gleeson mid season and havent replaced him. Its also rumoured that Deacon will be hanging up his boots which leaves a shortage of cover in the halves, Lulu can play there, but that leaves McClorum at hooker which just kills Wigans ruck play. Wigan may therefore be forced to play the inexperienced and lightweight but talented Jo Mellors at Scrum half.

Warrington are facing a player apocalypse. Vast swathes of their squad are well into their 30's and looking forward to their pensions
They have lost Matt King which is a massive blow and also Louis Anderson. Its debatable if the ageing Morley 34 will get back on the field. Brett Hodgson is another with probably next year being his final one. Its not clear yet what is going to happen to their talisman Lee Briers at the end of the season. He may move on, retire or go around for one last year. The signing of Stefan Ratchford appears to me to be an attempt to cover his departure.
Its also rumoured Matty Blyth, John Clarke and Chris Riley are going to Widnes granted they are not star players, but it reduces their squad depth.
Trent Waterhouse has come in for next year and he seems like advance planning for the loss of Morley.

Leeds are another team with issues around key players reaching the veteran stage and also departing. Peacock has probably got one more year in him and is pretty much irreplaceable. Sinfield probably has a couple left but is 31 later this year.
They have also lost Burgess to the NRL, Keith Senior to the now defunct Celtic Crusaders and also Ben Cross to Widnes via Wigan. Danny Buderus is returning to the NRL. Ali Lautiti is also retiring at the end of this season.
Their signings so far announced amount to Richard Moore from Wakefield.

Re: Team for Next Season : Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:05 pm  

I agree CM, I'm not to worried about losing pryce as long as we replace him
With quality halfback.

Re: Team for Next Season : Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:16 pm  

A combination of Hohaia at 1, and Gaskell and Lomax in the halves will see us being far more dangerous next year. Hohaia may not be particularly safe under the high ball, but Wellens hasn't been since mid season either so that's no great change.

The loss of Graham is a big blow, but all it means is that we have to use the bench properly and interchange players better. I'd still like to see another prop brought in, but when Leeds are resorting to resigning Richard Moore, are there any available?

The loss of Pryce is less of a blow than it would have been 12 months ago. He's been replaced by Hohaia. Eastmond has been replaced by Gaskell, who has done a very good job for us this year given his age and experience. We won't be signing another half back, and nor should we. Why stunt the development of two very promising half backs?

Wigan are the most in danger of a massive fall next year with the loss of Maguire, his replacement is the most important signing for any club next year.

Re: Team for Next Season : Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:35 pm  

Pryce will not be the only first team player who won't renew his contract!!

Re: Team for Next Season : Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:45 pm  

You will need to factor in, the fact that senior contracts that expire at the the end of next season will not be renewed. I stress will not.

Re: Team for Next Season : Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:16 pm  

St pete wrote:

I agree CM, I'm not to worried about losing pryce as long as we replace him
With quality halfback.

Hohoia has been signed to fulfill the role above.

Granted he has played much of his recent RL at FB, however he is not unfamiliar to playing in the halves, and has played there on a number of occasions for New Zealand, 8 times in fact. The last time in 2008.

Looking to his club career he has played 55 starting games in the halves, scoring 18 trys, out of a total of 179 appearances.

The way i see it is that when we signed Pryce, many fans were sceptical and said he wasnt a half back and that he was a winger or centre. He didnt turn out too bad did he.
Lance has far more history of playing in the halves than Pryce had ever done, prior to us signing him to play that role. Lance also is a proven world class performer at International level having won MOM awards while playing against Australia, something that could not be said about Pryce.

Lance will also bring some much needed pace into the side. Leon is not slow, but isnt someone capable of going 100metres, which Lance can do.

Finally who would you suggest Saints went out and signed that would fulfill the role you require?
There are certainly no British halves i would be throwing begging money at.
Within SL only Dureau and Chase are of sufficient quality to improve the side, and both are under contract.
Looking down under to the NRL i cant see any players that we would have a chance of signing. The real class ones will all be out of our spending reach.

The best solution is what Saints are doing, and thats nurture Gaskell, Wheeler and Lomax alongside Hohoia.

Most other SL clubs will be jealous that we have such a wealth of talent coming through in the halves.
Look at Wire for example who have signed both Myler and Ratchford from Salford due to lack of quality coming through their junior ranks.
The Leeds halves Mcguire and Burrows will both be 30 next year, Sinfield will be 32.
Wigan have been playing the 32 year old Deacon this season at scrum half while keeping their fingers crossed that young Jo Mellors starts to physically mature, however he has failed to make any impact this year at Harlequins.

Re: Team for Next Season : Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:24 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote: For Wigan the loss of McGuire at season end is potentially the greatest loss any club will suffer this season. As yet we dont know who will replace him, but if it isnt a starting coach from the NRL, then i cant see Wigan hitting the same levels of intensity. On top of his departure its also been confirmed that Coley is retiring and Hoffman is heading down under. So thats two gone from their pack with no apparent external replacements. They also lost Gleeson mid season and havent replaced him. Its also rumoured that Deacon will be hanging up his boots which leaves a shortage of cover in the halves, Lulu can play there, but that leaves McClorum at hooker which just kills Wigans ruck play. Wigan may therefore be forced to play the inexperienced and lightweight but talented Jo Mellors at Scrum half. In answer to the above part of your post. Coley will be missed, but we've played this entire year without Fielden, so his return will certainly compensate for the loss of Andy. We also have the return of O'Carrol plus the potential signing of the 6'3'' 17 stone Gil Dudson to bolster our numbers. Leaving us with next year in the frontrow; Fielden, Lima, Prescott, Mossop and outside those main four we'll have O'Carrol, Crosby, Spencer and Dudson? Hoffman will be a loss as he's been superb. However Hock will pick up the slack left behind from the Hoff's departure. Gareth's already showing a steady return to form, to once again being the best backrower in SL. And just to back that up, look at Hock's stats from the season prior to his drugs ban in comparison with Westwoods superb season last year. http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011 In regards to Deacon there are rumors that he'll go around for another year, but will only play sporadically as to make sure that Mellor and Powell get plenty of game time and experience without being overwhelmed. The only worry for Wigan next year IMO is the loss of Madge. He's been superb, probably the best coach to ever grace SL IMO. So who ever does fill his boots has got a tough job. But it'll be a case of continuing on with what has made us successful as opposed to changing anything radically. Just a few tweaks hear and there are all that will be required. Plus while Madge has been fantastic, the roles that Lenegan, Radlinski, Bitcon and Wane have played in our rise to success shouldn't be underestimated, and importantly they'll all be still in place at Wigan next year. If I was to make a prediction for Wigan next year in terms of what we'll see on the field. It would be the integration of a few more exciting and very talented youngsters, and a continuation of the systems and processes left in place by Madge, with a few tweaks to those here and there.

The Chair Maker wrote: For Wigan the loss of McGuire at season end is potentially the greatest loss any club will suffer this season. As yet we dont know who will replace him, but if it isnt a starting coach from the NRL, then i cant see Wigan hitting the same levels of intensity. On top of his departure its also been confirmed that Coley is retiring and Hoffman is heading down under. So thats two gone from their pack with no apparent external replacements. They also lost Gleeson mid season and havent replaced him. Its also rumoured that Deacon will be hanging up his boots which leaves a shortage of cover in the halves, Lulu can play there, but that leaves McClorum at hooker which just kills Wigans ruck play. Wigan may therefore be forced to play the inexperienced and lightweight but talented Jo Mellors at Scrum half. In answer to the above part of your post. Coley will be missed, but we've played this entire year without Fielden, so his return will certainly compensate for the loss of Andy. We also have the return of O'Carrol plus the potential signing of the 6'3'' 17 stone Gil Dudson to bolster our numbers. Leaving us with next year in the frontrow; Fielden, Lima, Prescott, Mossop and outside those main four we'll have O'Carrol, Crosby, Spencer and Dudson? Hoffman will be a loss as he's been superb. However Hock will pick up the slack left behind from the Hoff's departure. Gareth's already showing a steady return to form, to once again being the best backrower in SL. And just to back that up, look at Hock's stats from the season prior to his drugs ban in comparison with Westwoods superb season last year. http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011 In regards to Deacon there are rumors that he'll go around for another year, but will only play sporadically as to make sure that Mellor and Powell get plenty of game time and experience without being overwhelmed. The only worry for Wigan next year IMO is the loss of Madge. He's been superb, probably the best coach to ever grace SL IMO. So who ever does fill his boots has got a tough job. But it'll be a case of continuing on with what has made us successful as opposed to changing anything radically. Just a few tweaks hear and there are all that will be required. Plus while Madge has been fantastic, the roles that Lenegan, Radlinski, Bitcon and Wane have played in our rise to success shouldn't be underestimated, and importantly they'll all be still in place at Wigan next year. If I was to make a prediction for Wigan next year in terms of what we'll see on the field. It would be the integration of a few more exciting and very talented youngsters, and a continuation of the systems and processes left in place by Madge, with a few tweaks to those here and there.

Re: Team for Next Season : Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:57 am  

bolinsblues wrote:

You will need to factor in, the fact that senior contracts that expire at the the end of next season will not be renewed. I stress will not.

To whom are you referring? Wilkin?

Re: Team for Next Season : Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:51 am  

The Chair Maker wrote:

Granted he has played much of his recent RL at FB, however he is not unfamiliar to playing in the halves, and has played there on a number of occasions for New Zealand, 8 times in fact. The last time in 2008.

Looking to his club career he has played 55 starting games in the halves, scoring 18 trys, out of a total of 179 appearances.

No, you are clearly wrong here CM. According to a number of oracles who contribute to these boards, Hohaia has never played in the halves during his NRL career. Never. This is a FACT, apparently. So therefore you or Hohaia or the club or someone must be lying!

I think Hohaia will do well in the halves myself. Just because he has been a bit of a utility player down under does not mean he cannot produce the goods in the middle. As you point out, Pryce was used as a bit of a utility before he came to us - in fact, I believe that we were willing to offer him the 6 spot was one reason he came to us (the other, my guess would now be, was that he thought Bradford were on a downward spiral, we were on the up and he wanted to jump ship; much as that perception is likely to be in his reasoning this time with the Dragons). But look at Lomax. He was Mr Utility last season and is supposed to be a six but while he may never develop fully at 7, he's certainly given it a good shot. No reason to believe Hohaia with all his international and club experience, and experience at both 6 and 1, won't make a better fist of it next season. I'm looking forward to seeing him play there.