Re: 19 Man Squad for Leeds : Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:04 am  

Saddened! wrote:

But what happens if Gaskell finishes this season in the form he's in now? I.e trying everything, but only a few things ever coming off?

After that long people would get bored of the 'he's young, he'll get some good experience' line and his reputation will nosedive.

Saints NEED to look at loaning a scrum half IF Kyle isn't going to play for us again. Even if it's only someone like Ben Black or Robbie Paul. Someone who can come in and organise and lead the team around a bit. If we could get an NRL player, great. If we could get someone early, bonus. But they've got to at least try for cover this season.

You know whats going to happen next, Leon will be rushed back again because we're losing a lot of games and he will get injured again. We're just lucky they did away with relegation

I agree, if we do sack/release eastmond then we need to replace him with a quality replacement either on loan or permanent.

IMO if we don't bring anyone in and go with what we've got, then we will be in a fight for a play off spot because I can't see how we can create anything or score points.

Re: 19 Man Squad for Leeds : Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:43 am  

St pete wrote:

IMO if we don't bring anyone in and go with what we've got, then we will be in a fight for a play off spot because I can't see how we can create anything or score points.

The rest of the team have to work, that's how we'll startr to get penetration.

People are quick to say about Gaskell that "He's too young/inexperienced" to be an affective 7, but that's only completely true if he's got options and he's taking the wrong ones.
Yes, there's an element of half back to marshall your troops, but these guys are training full time, they should know where and when to go and run, and since we've an inexperienced half back, they should be working doubly hard to provide him with options, which I don't feel is happening. There's too much one up rugby, the defence line is slow, leaving us on the back foot even against not-so-fast play the balls.

Re: 19 Man Squad for Leeds : Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:47 am  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

That kind of pressure didn't serve the likes of Robinson and Brown well in the same situation at Wigan though.

I remeber a young Wellens getting swapped to full back at Odsal and getting crucified. I thought that day, that experience like that could crush his confidence and potentially his career.

Re: 19 Man Squad for Leeds : Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:53 am  

Offside Monkey wrote:

The rest of the team have to work, that's how we'll startr to get penetration.

People are quick to say about Gaskell that "He's too young/inexperienced" to be an affective 7, but that's only completely true if he's got options and he's taking the wrong ones.
Yes, there's an element of half back to marshall your troops, but these guys are training full time, they should know where and when to go and run, and since we've an inexperienced half back, they should be working doubly hard to provide him with options, which I don't feel is happening. There's too much one up rugby, the defence line is slow, leaving us on the back foot even against not-so-fast play the balls.

Sorry mate but I don't agree with that one little bit. Thru no fault of his own, Gaskell is not good enough at the moment to be our first choice regular number 7. Maybe if Leon was fit and on form it could work but the fact we've got no experienced halfbacks will spell huge problems.

This current team on this seasons form lack creativity and will struggle to score points this year and our defence ain't good enough to grind out wins.

I honestly believe without halfbacks we will be in a fight for top 6 spot maybe even a fight for top 8.

Re: 19 Man Squad for Leeds : Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:06 am  

St pete wrote:

Sorry mate but I don't agree with that one little bit. Thru no fault of his own, Gaskell is not good enough at the moment to be our first choice regular number 7. Maybe if Leon was fit and on form it could work but the fact we've got no experienced halfbacks will spell huge problems.

How can you say he's not good enough? I've listed on other thread all the positive things he did through the game, breaks/half breaks, try assists, good kicks etc. He has no glaring weakness, except the odd mistake, which we'll all forgive a rookie for.
I know its not perfect, but I was there last Friday, and Gaskell was definatley not the problem. The lack of our regular 6 compounds the problem terribly, but had Pryce been playing, the only reason it would have changed the result would have been due to a number of individual peices of brilliance. The team as a whole were not performing.
An inexperienced 7 is a trial, but its one that we should be doing a lot better at than the game against harlequins showed.

Re: 19 Man Squad for Leeds : Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:10 am  

Offside Monkey wrote:

How can you say he's not good enough? I've listed on other thread all the positive things he did through the game, breaks/half breaks, try assists, good kicks etc. He has no glaring weakness, except the odd mistake, which we'll all forgive a rookie for.
I know its not perfect, but I was there last Friday, and Gaskell was definatley not the problem. The lack of our regular 6 compounds the problem terribly, but had Pryce been playing, the only reason it would have changed the result would have been due to a number of individual peices of brilliance. The team as a whole were not performing.
An inexperienced 7 is a trial, but its one that we should be doing a lot better at than the game against harlequins showed.

Think your missing the point mate. I'm not saying Gaskell ain't good enough, I'm saying he's not ready yet to be our 7 with no experienced halfback alongside him.

I think Gaskell has done pretty good since he came in to the first team but he's not ready yet.

Re: 19 Man Squad for Leeds : Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:02 pm  

Regardless of who Simmons prefers in the playmaking positions and in the absence (and likely future absence) of Pyrce a decision must be made NOW on which two players are going to lead the club forward till the end of the season. If it's Gaskell and Lomax, or Lomax and Wheeler, or Gaskell and Moore etc. play them and KEEP PLAYING THEM. It's bad enough that we are going to have to rely - long term - on second string players and kids. Let's not make things far worse by continually swapping and changing players week to week. I firmly believe that Lomax and Wheeler especially have had their development slowed because they are forever being moved about to accommodate others. If we give them a run of ten-or-so games in one position they'll improve far quicker.

Re: 19 Man Squad for Leeds : Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:25 pm  

St pete wrote:

Think your missing the point mate. I'm not saying Gaskell ain't good enough, I'm saying he's not ready yet to be our 7 with no experienced halfback alongside him.

Er, so how exactly does Gaskell become ready, if not by actually playing? I always think this approach, adopted by some fans, is a bit of a dumb one to be honest. The only way an inexperienced player will 'be ready' to play at first grade is by playing at first grade, being given the chance to learn from his mistakes and build upon his strengths. The key to whether Gaskell will be successful at this level is whether he can learn from his mistakes or is buried by them. If it is the former then there is every reason to believe that we have a good little halfback in the making as he has shown some great touches so far. We wouldn't have had at least two of those tries against Quins, for instance, if it hadn't been for Gaskell. He has pace. He has potential with the boot. He has energy and commitment in defence and attack. He can pull off some lovely passes. He just needs to continue learning and slowly he will pull his game together. As he does that, he will be able to focus on the bigger picture rather than on getting his kicks right or what have you. But he has to have a chance to get that far first and the only way that will happen is by playing him.

Re: 19 Man Squad for Leeds : Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:42 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Er, so how exactly does Gaskell become ready, if not by actually playing? I always think this approach, adopted by some fans, is a bit of a dumb one to be honest. The only way an inexperienced player will 'be ready' to play at first grade is by playing at first grade, being given the chance to learn from his mistakes and build upon his strengths. The key to whether Gaskell will be successful at this level is whether he can learn from his mistakes or is buried by them. If it is the former then there is every reason to believe that we have a good little halfback in the making as he has shown some great touches so far. We wouldn't have had at least two of those tries against Quins, for instance, if it hadn't been for Gaskell. He has pace. He has potential with the boot. He has energy and commitment in defence and attack. He can pull off some lovely passes. He just needs to continue learning and slowly he will pull his game together. As he does that, he will be able to focus on the bigger picture rather than on getting his kicks right or what have you. But he has to have a chance to get that far first and the only way that will happen is by playing him.

Fine. But what if we lose all those games while he's merrily learning the ropes? What if we're out of the play offs, the crowds are at 5,000 and all those bar you who are there are chanting 'Sack the board', 'Saddened! for president' and 'Boooooooo' all the time?

Re: 19 Man Squad for Leeds : Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:49 pm  

Saintsfan wrote: Er, so how exactly does Gaskell become ready, if not by actually playing? I always think this approach, adopted by some fans, is a bit of a dumb one to be honest. The only way an inexperienced player will 'be ready' to play at first grade is by playing at first grade, being given the chance to learn from his mistakes and build upon his strengths. The key to whether Gaskell will be successful at this level is whether he can learn from his mistakes or is buried by them. If it is the former then there is every reason to believe that we have a good little halfback in the making as he has shown some great touches so far. We wouldn't have had at least two of those tries against Quins, for instance, if it hadn't been for Gaskell. He has pace. He has potential with the boot. He has energy and commitment in defence and attack. He can pull off some lovely passes. He just needs to continue learning and slowly he will pull his game together. As he does that, he will be able to focus on the bigger picture rather than on getting his kicks right or what have you. But he has to have a chance to get that far first and the only way that will happen is by playing him.


I a ideal world Gaskell would have been selected in certain games that would be deemed of a easy nature to develop his progress. Young players are better to have the games hand picked so they ain't thrown in the deep end as things can easily crush young players confidence.

I'm not saying he's not good enough, I'm not saying he won't turn into good player and I'm not saying he's doing a bad job but what I am saying is he wouldn't get a look in if Leon was fit and Kyle saga wasn't on going, that says to me that the coach and club know he ain't ready yet!

If we went with your throw them in at the deep end method, then maybe we should just throw all the kids in. We have to be very carefull not to ruin his chances of becoming a good player by just playing because we have nobody else. With him being a halfback makes it harder as he's expected to run the show which tajes alot of confidence and experience.

Maybe we could get away with playing an inexperienced halfback if we had Pryce fit but that's not the case.

This sort of game tonight can make or break a young guys confidence if things don't go well.