Re: Will we beat Leeds in 2015? : Sat Sep 05, 2015 3:51 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

Yes but would that kicking game have been so accurate if Leeds had fresher bodies in defence winning collisions and putting pressure on kickers.

Will Saints produce that kicking performance against a fresh team?

I thought we were picking up form after the semi final, then we collapsed like an Australian batting line up, so who knows what this win will do for us.

Re: Will we beat Leeds in 2015? : Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:51 pm  

Top Saint wrote:

1. We've been under strength all year.
2. Leeds had 3 missing. We've had that many missing all year but you haven't allowed that to be used as an excuse.
3. Leeds played poor ONLY because we didn't let them play well.

I see the glass half empty brigade are out in full force again!!!!

I thought my post was pretty objective tbh. I don't think there is any point in getting carried away with Friday night. There's a long way to go.

Re: Will we beat Leeds in 2015? : Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:51 pm  

Albion wrote:

I thought my post was pretty objective tbh. I don't think there is any point in getting carried away with Friday night. There's a long way to go.

It might have been a win against a side with a hangover from wembley and a few out injured but with the previous four defeats fresh in the mind this win was absolutely massive. Taken on it's own it is just two points but after the other results confidence would have been pretty low, which was evident in the Huddersfield game and this win will provide an immeasurable boost in this area. Plus it got the monkey off our back with Leeds. Imagine going to Headingley in the play offs on the back of 4 losses whereas it looks a lot rosier going there on the back of a win.

Re: Will we beat Leeds in 2015? : Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:56 pm  

curly990 wrote:

Plus it got the monkey off our back with Leeds. Imagine going to Headingley in the play offs on the back of 4 losses whereas it looks a lot rosier going there on the back of a win.

Its only this season we,ve had this monkey on our back in the super league rounds. You could say with this win we have brought things back to normality we have one of the best if not the best winning records at Headingly over the last 4 or 5 years, it was way back in 2010 when they last won against us on there own grass. I would say this season its Leeds who have managed to shrug off the monkey. I'll answer the question in advance, yes we have a bigger monkey in the Grand Final with Leeds.

Re: Will we beat Leeds in 2015? : Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:52 am  

Albion wrote:

I thought my post was pretty objective tbh. I don't think there is any point in getting carried away with Friday night. There's a long way to go.

My point is that posters seem to use the negatives from Leeds performance rather than the positives from our performance as the reason we won.

Given that most of our kicks found the floor for once I don't think Hardaker would have made much difference.
Watkins is class so he was a big loss for them but Vea gives us lots of aggressive go forward, and would normally play on Watkins side so not sure Watkins would have had an easy night anyway if they had both played.

Saints played reasonably well with lots of room for improvement, mainly at halfback, so I prefer to think we contained Leeds very well knowing that we still have room for improvement.

Re: Will we beat Leeds in 2015? : Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:59 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

I'll answer the question in advance, yes we have a bigger monkey in the Grand Final with Leeds.

This is an assumption. The idea that somehow Saints' players have a kind of "mental block" which stops them from performing.

I mean, it SOUNDS plausible. But there's no evidence to prove this argument.

And before you say, "Well, look at the results" - you are aware of the gambler's fallacy?

It's amazing how often when you look at the head-to-head winning performances of two clubs over a hundred years the figures are incredibly close. Makes you think ...

Re: Will we beat Leeds in 2015? : Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:21 am  

Mugwump wrote:

This is an assumption. The idea that somehow Saints' players have a kind of "mental block" which stops them from performing.

I mean, it SOUNDS plausible. But there's no evidence to prove this argument.

And before you say, "Well, look at the results" - you are aware of the gambler's fallacy?

It's amazing how often when you look at the head-to-head winning performances of two clubs over a hundred years the figures are incredibly close. Makes you think ...

Looking at the results in Grand Finals, I'm not so sure either.

2007: Saints were pretty much blown off the park. Not sure if they just switched off that day, or what.
2008: Everyone expected the 'S' to steamroller Leeds, and Anderson definitely lost it at half time as famously seen on the Sky cameras. A good candidate for the mental weakness theory.
2009: Was really close. I don't think Saints bottled it.
2011: Leeds definitely showed superior mental toughness in the last quarter, when Saints failed to kick on from the lead they had built up. Shenton's injury should have been better covered for.

Re: Will we beat Leeds in 2015? : Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:58 am  

Wouldn't any such issue with Sts players have gone with last year's win?

Besides which, 4 years is a long time in sport - had a quick look at the Leeds 2011 team and 7 players aren't at the club any more. I expect Sts would be similar if not even more changed.

If Leeds meet Sts in the GF I don't think players from either side would make much of the previous GFs TBH, even if the media do.

Re: Will we beat Leeds in 2015? : Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:34 pm  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

Wouldn't any such issue with Sts players have gone with last year's win?

Besides which, 4 years is a long time in sport - had a quick look at the Leeds 2011 team and 7 players aren't at the club any more. I expect Sts would be similar if not even more changed.

If Leeds meet Sts in the GF I don't think players from either side would make much of the previous GFs TBH, even if the media do.

Let's say it really is possible to have a "mental block" (I'm not ruling it out. All I'm saying is there's no concrete evidence)

Results show they don't last forever. I remember back in the 80s and early 90s when it seemed as though Saints were beaten every time they took the field against Wigan.

I mean, if you're mentally beaten after half-a-dozen major defeats logic suggests you're even more so with each successive defeat. But if that were really true Saints would never have beaten Wigan in the Premiership Final - which was the stepping stone for pretty much all of Saints' SL success.

The truth is that no matter how good the players, no matter how great the advantage - ANY side can experience "one of THOSE" days in a Grand Final where nothing seems to stick, every ricochet drops fortuitously for the opposition, one after another key player falls victim to injury or some idiot gets himself sent off.

Murphy's Law applies equally to Rugby League.

Re: Will we beat Leeds in 2015? : Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:15 pm  

I don't think it's a case of Saints having a mental block at Old Trafford, more a case Leeds having a knack of producing there. We did it again against Warrington in 2012.

That's why ANY opposition team could be wary of facing Leeds at Old Trafford if they get there. Not because they can't produce, but they know Leeds and Sinfield & co. do produce.