Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:39 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote: Yes, you are right. Though after a promising start at the Panthers when they came second in 2010 they came 12th and a disastrous 15th in 2011&2012. The NRL review makes interesting reading especially the bit about being the worst kicking team in the competition. http://www.nrl.com/season-review-penrit ... fault.aspx Burns was dropped in his final season and released to join Hull KR where he struggled in the first season. However there is no doubt that he played well last season and earned his three year contract with Saints at this late stage of his career. Achieving something over there is incredibly hard; Thurston has won jack in a Cowboys jersey, I'm guessing he's a 'journeyman' as well ? Burns isn't international class, but if he were English, he would be ! My point was that the argument that Saints have a better stand off than Wigan can't be taken as read. It may turn out to be correct. Burns is the epitome of 'journeyman' whereas Williams and Hampshire have their whole careers ahead of them and could achieve anything in the game. No disrespect, because he is clearly good enough for Super League but Burns has achieved nothing. Interesting manipulation of the situation there. Burns was to all intents and purposes, kicked out of Penrith due to a 12 match suspension he incurred after being charged with an intentional high tackle and chicken wing in the same game. Prior to that, he'd played nearly 130 NRL matches over a 7 year people whereby he'd been a first choice 6 in pretty much all. Luke Walsh, whom you lot are trying to denigrate on your own board at present, was voted joint 7th in the Dally M the year he left for us. I know categorically that he tried to get out of the Saints contract because a current NRL team wanted him as their first choice 7. He's credited as having his best ever season, the year he left for England. To you daft lot, he's a 'journeyman' as well. I find it hilarious that you can seriously raise the argument that Matty Smith and George Williams are even comparable. Take Wigan's system away by defending correctly and they look like amateurs. Saints' two halves are seasoned, respected NRL first teamers. Smith and Williams wouldn't even be playing first grade over there.

Aboveusonlypie wrote: Yes, you are right. Though after a promising start at the Panthers when they came second in 2010 they came 12th and a disastrous 15th in 2011&2012. The NRL review makes interesting reading especially the bit about being the worst kicking team in the competition. http://www.nrl.com/season-review-penrit ... fault.aspx Burns was dropped in his final season and released to join Hull KR where he struggled in the first season. However there is no doubt that he played well last season and earned his three year contract with Saints at this late stage of his career. Achieving something over there is incredibly hard; Thurston has won jack in a Cowboys jersey, I'm guessing he's a 'journeyman' as well ? Burns isn't international class, but if he were English, he would be ! My point was that the argument that Saints have a better stand off than Wigan can't be taken as read. It may turn out to be correct. Burns is the epitome of 'journeyman' whereas Williams and Hampshire have their whole careers ahead of them and could achieve anything in the game. No disrespect, because he is clearly good enough for Super League but Burns has achieved nothing. Interesting manipulation of the situation there. Burns was to all intents and purposes, kicked out of Penrith due to a 12 match suspension he incurred after being charged with an intentional high tackle and chicken wing in the same game. Prior to that, he'd played nearly 130 NRL matches over a 7 year people whereby he'd been a first choice 6 in pretty much all. Luke Walsh, whom you lot are trying to denigrate on your own board at present, was voted joint 7th in the Dally M the year he left for us. I know categorically that he tried to get out of the Saints contract because a current NRL team wanted him as their first choice 7. He's credited as having his best ever season, the year he left for England. To you daft lot, he's a 'journeyman' as well. I find it hilarious that you can seriously raise the argument that Matty Smith and George Williams are even comparable. Take Wigan's system away by defending correctly and they look like amateurs. Saints' two halves are seasoned, respected NRL first teamers. Smith and Williams wouldn't even be playing first grade over there.

Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:23 am  

SLS wrote:

Interesting manipulation of the situation there.

Burns was to all intents and purposes, kicked out of Penrith due to a 12 match suspension he incurred after being charged with an intentional high tackle and chicken wing in the same game. Prior to that, he'd played nearly 130 NRL matches over a 7 year people whereby he'd been a first choice 6 in pretty much all.

Luke Walsh, whom you lot are trying to denigrate on your own board at present, was voted joint 7th in the Dally M the year he left for us. I know categorically that he tried to get out of the Saints contract because a current NRL team wanted him as their first choice 7. He's credited as having his best ever season, the year he left for England. To you daft lot, he's a 'journeyman' as well.

I find it hilarious that you can seriously raise the argument that Matty Smith and George Williams are even comparable. Take Wigan's system away by defending correctly and they look like amateurs. Saints' two halves are seasoned, respected NRL first teamers. Smith and Williams wouldn't even be playing first grade over there.

I don't think anyone is trying to 'denigrate' Luke. He is a top class Super League player. The best half in the league. What more do you want?

Matty is at least the current England scrum half. To most Saints fans however, he will always be the guy who was surplus to your requirements. At least give him the credit he deserves that he has turned his career around and improved markedly as a player with Wigan.

Even The Roosters had difficulty defending Wigan's 'system' so I don't think it's as easy as you make out. If every team 'defended correctly' there'd be no tries would there?

Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:47 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

Matty is at least the current England scrum half. To most Saints fans however, he will always be the guy who was surplus to your requirements. At least give him the credit he deserves that he has turned his career around and improved markedly as a player with Wigan.

Even The Roosters had difficulty defending Wigan's 'system' so I don't think it's as easy as you make out. If every team 'defended correctly' there'd be no tries would there?

Smith will always be that guy, yes. We had Eastmond, significantly the better player; however Saints didn't plan that time very well at all and it's took them 3 years to fix it. Even now, they have Hohaia as one of their top earners despite being little more than ordinary because of the lack of foresight Saints showed. Lot of money in play for Saints to work with when Hohaia leaves at the end of this coming season.

Regardless, Smith has never been anything but Joe Ordinary. He can run your plays and provide a semi-decent kicking game but under pressure, he ain't going to cut it. It's why in games ike the GF, when it was obvious to all that Saints were defending your system correctly, you couldn't offer anything remotely different. Smith can't do 'different', he doesn't have it in him,

The Roosters game was a preseason friendly for them. How do we honestly think the likes of Wigan, Saints, Leeds, Warrington would get on against them in Australia if we faced them mid-season ? They'd have to declare !

Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:31 pm  

SLS wrote:

Smith will always be that guy, yes. We had Eastmond, significantly the better player; however Saints didn't plan that time very well at all and it's took them 3 years to fix it. Even now, they have Hohaia as one of their top earners despite being little more than ordinary because of the lack of foresight Saints showed. Lot of money in play for Saints to work with when Hohaia leaves at the end of this coming season.

Regardless, Smith has never been anything but Joe Ordinary. He can run your plays and provide a semi-decent kicking game but under pressure, he ain't going to cut it. It's why in games ike the GF, when it was obvious to all that Saints were defending your system correctly, you couldn't offer anything remotely different. Smith can't do 'different', he doesn't have it in him,

The Roosters game was a preseason friendly for them. How do we honestly think the likes of Wigan, Saints, Leeds, Warrington would get on against them in Australia if we faced them mid-season ? They'd have to declare !

Fair enough points. I think that describing Matty as Joe Ordinary is a little unfair. He may very well be limited but a lot of people rate him highly enough to include him in the Dream Team and the England team.

Also Lance is after all a World Cup winner. Not a bad pedigree is it? That Saints bought him then didn't know where to play him is hardly his fault. A little more respect might be in order. But then that's none of my business. So I'll say no more.

Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:57 pm  

Looks like SLS is here to stir it up.

It will be like the immovable object meeting the irresistable force when he and Saddened meet.

Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:42 pm  

I don't think Smith has improved that much, more experienced maybe but skill wise no. I always liked him when at Saints but recognized his limited ability. He has become another of the fortunate players to gain honours whilst playing for the pies. There is a long history of players being selected for international duty just because they have signed for wigin. Sarginson is another who would hardly be known if he was still at London. I still remember Neil Cowie signing from Rochdale to wigin; just an average prop who became an international class player by a signature. My prediction for this term is that the pies will struggle.

Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:34 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

Fair enough points. I think that describing Matty as Joe Ordinary is a little unfair. He may very well be limited but a lot of people rate him highly enough to include him in the Dream Team and the England team.

Also Lance is after all a World Cup winner. Not a bad pedigree is it? That Saints bought him then didn't know where to play him is hardly his fault. A little more respect might be in order. But then that's none of my business. So I'll say no more.

Smith being in the England team or Dream Team is more an indictment of the state of British RL than anything else.

Hohaia, not disrespectful at all really. Saints signed him as a half back when they were desperate for a big name moving into their new ground. He isn't a half whatsoever but offers nice cover across a range of positions. Saints will be much, much stronger for having a proper 6 and 7 this year for the first time in donkey's.

Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:11 pm  

Dux wrote:

I'm looking forward to seeing how Wilkin gets on this season, given that he should be spending all of his game time in the back row (assuming he isn't displaced by LMS, Thompson and Vea, that is). I know that not everyone agrees with me, but I think we've forgotten how effective he can be in the second row.

It's been a while since he impressed me in the second row tbh. I think his best rugby was when he carried us in the halves and IMO walked our player of the year that season.

I'm not a big fan of Wilkin and think he will struggle as a forward next season as players get bigger and stronger every year and he just shrinks.

Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:13 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Add to that that our two halfbacks are pedestrian!! Williams is quicker than most SL halfbacks and certainly than Walsh or Burns. Add to that we have the fastest halfback in Superleague just waiting his chance (which he will get this season). Hampshire is the fastest player at Wigan. At 17 he finished 5th in the Super League fastest man comp. Pace is not a problem at Wigan.

I remember him telling us that we would win nothing with Smith and Green at half back.

IMO the best half backs this season are at Catalan, and if they can sort their away form out they will be pushing hard for a top four spot.

Williams might be quicker than Walsh when running but has he the speed of thought as Walsh ?

Re: New Year Sales at Wigan : Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:14 pm  

The latest installment from that group of loving idiots over the lump.

None of our players stand out but with Longy back our half back and back play should improve.

They're all loving mad. Convinced of it.