Re: Shamefully bad : Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:44 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

Top of the league with a game to play?

I was more thinking trophyless for 6 years...

Yes, we've been unlucky with injuries - but we've left ourselves horribly exposed by only having one out and out halfback in the entire squad.

As I've said before, the strategy should have been to have a back-up half playing in the Academy. He'd obviously be a step down from Walsh, but would have experience of leading a team round the park. The ridiculous scrapping of the u-21's really blocks development of young players (and we - as in British RL - will reap the seeds of that in years to come), but other teams seem to manage to have reserve halfbacks who can do a job.

Re: Shamefully bad : Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:47 pm  

Th'ump wrote:

other teams seem to manage to have reserve halfbacks who can do a job.

We had Walsh, Lance, Wheeler and Lomax goinmg into the year to cover the halves.

Walsh and Lomax are out for the season, the club's faith in Wheeler has proven misplaced and Lance is rubbish.

Without a trophy for 6 years perhaps, we may be a week away from one which is closer than we were last year. A few sensible signings and we'll be stronger again.

There's no point extrapolating the last six years and saying last night was the culmination - this season has been a step forward in repairing the squad, next year should be a further step.

Re: Shamefully bad : Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:31 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

Well, no because we're missing our star signing at 7 for the season, who was replaced by Wilkin who is out for the season, we could play Lomax there but he's out for the season, but thankfully we brought in a reserve fullback to cover for him who is out for the season.

Here's a thought - would Leeds win it without Sinfield and Hardaker, plus reserves like say Burrow and McGuire out? I think I know the answer.

Let's retain perspective - there is absolutely no question whatsoever that the squad improved on last year through the addition of Walsh, Amor and Masoe (when fit), this is fairly evident from our league position despite the season long injury issues.

People make it sound like we are on an irreversible slide - we have an improved squad compared to last year which has been decimated. Chances are the squad will improve again next year with some signings.

Those who make out that there is some head in the clouds mentality at Saints that ignores the shortcomings of the squad at the moment are not being fair (or honest) about the sterps being taken to rectify matters; steps that so far have us sat top of the league.

Whilst these are all valid points, the lack of half backs wasn't really the reason for our defeat last night.

We completely got owned up the middle, the lack of commitment was alamring as was our attitude, and this has happened this season when Jonny Lomax, Jon Wilkin & Luke Walsh have been in the team.

That is the more worrying aspect than simply lacking in creativity.

I can't recall a collective unit of Saints players making so many basic errors with ball in hand, poor defensive reads and generally playing so dumb. It was horrendous to watch from start to finish.

Re: Shamefully bad : Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:38 pm  

I think if you take the key pivots out of any top team they are going to struggle, especially against wire last night ,who for me, played the best they have all year. Take Sinfield/Maguire out of Leeds and O'Loughlin/Smith out Wigan and they would struggle to. Im very confident you wont play anywhere near as badly as last night in the play off games and still have a decent shot at getting to OT, depending on your run in. Leeds and Wigan look the two favourites for me though. Warrington are still missing Briers, our attacking structure and ball control at times is worse than amateur.

Re: Shamefully bad : Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:43 pm  

Rauhihi' offload wrote:

I think if you take the key pivots out of any top team they are going to struggle, especially against wire last night ,who for me, played the best they have all year. Take Sinfield/Maguire out of Leeds and O'Loughlin/Smith out Wigan and they would struggle to. Im very confident you wont play anywhere near as badly as last night in the play off games and still have a decent shot at getting to OT, depending on your run in. Leeds and Wigan look the two favourites for me though. Warrington are still missing Briers, our attacking structure and ball control at times is worse than amateur.

Based on some recent top class loses?

Re: Shamefully bad : Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:48 pm  

Rauhihi' offload wrote:

I think if you take the key pivots out of any top team they are going to struggle, especially against wire last night ,who for me, played the best they have all year. Take Sinfield/Maguire out of Leeds and O'Loughlin/Smith out Wigan and they would struggle to.

Leeds were without mcguire and burrow (and a man down) last week and still did OK. Wigan had numerous key players out at various point this season and have done OK. Generally that's because theres depth to those teams. You take sinfield and mcguire out and leeds would still have dangerous playmakers and leaders, ditto for wigan's equivalents. Saints have gone into this season with only one out and out halfback, it was an accident waiting to happen.

Re: Shamefully bad : Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:50 pm  

No1 Saint wrote:

Based on some recent top class loses?

Irrelevant. Wigan lost 7 of 9 league games before last seasons playoffs. Judge it on experience and how many key players are fit rather than a tit for tat who beat who in recent league games.

Re: Shamefully bad : Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:54 pm  

FlexWheeler wrote:

Irrelevant. Wigan lost 7 of 9 league games before last seasons playoffs. Judge it on experience and how many key players are fit rather than a tit for tat who beat who in recent league games.

Not writing Wigan off but they had Sam Tomkins and Pat Richards last season who contributed massively to their points.

They don't have that same spark as last season, although clearly when they get their structures right, they are tough to beat.

Re: Shamefully bad : Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:28 pm  

Bad bad day at the office , mickey poor team , only good thing we got going for us is warrington are a mickey poor team with halfs

Re: Shamefully bad : Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:38 pm  

Not read the thread but I agree with the title of the thread. We was bad and I was totally embarrassed.

If that's the sort of showing this team puts in when a cup is on offer then I'm glad we won't make old Trafford as it would be a record score.

I'm not going to bag tommy as he's been good nearly every week for past two seasons and that's the worst he's ever played so it's not right IMO to bag him off and I put that down to his bad night at the office.

McDonall is a waste of space, he's dead with the ball and surely we can't offer him a deal.

Jordan Turner was woeful. He can't play that role, it's so predicable what he's going to do. He's not playing what he sees, he's playing what he's been doing on the training field and just going thru that procedure. His passing was woeful. He's not good enough at centre never mind the ball playing role.

Amor been shocking for few weeks now, he doesn't look right to me, he's going down to easy.

I like Manu but IMO he's shot and I wouldn't offer him a one year deal, never mind a two. He looked off the pace last night apart from his try which he took very well.

I'd like to see Thompson brought back into the 17. He's been very unlucky not to be playing and IMO should play every week now.