Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:53 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

A couple of contacts I have at Saints really rate Brown so either he's a very good salesman and conning them or the fans have got it wrong. I suppose time will tell.

I think he is conning everybody, we have 2 on loan players which are holding back the development of our own players.

We have o,Brien who is now taking the place of a better player in Charnock, we have Howarth who is now taking the place of a better player in Thompson.
Another thing we have noticed is that the on loan players made reasonably satisfactory debuts, but now they sre familar with the coaching regime they have got progressively worse.

Mr Wane would have none of this, so maybe Brown is a better coach than Wane and the fans no nothing.

Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:33 am  

He coached an NRL team for 5 years, and took Huddersfield up a notch to cup finals and consistent high placed league finishes. That doesn't correspond to someone conning anyone about his ability. I don't think he's a real top class coach in the mould of Bennett, but his record suggests better than what we're seeing at the moment. If players are also rating him, that suggests to me that the faults may lie elsewhere, at least in part.

Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:59 am  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

He coached an NRL team for 5 years, and took Huddersfield up a notch to cup finals and consistent high placed league finishes. That doesn't correspond to someone conning anyone about his ability. I don't think he's a real top class coach in the mould of Bennett, but his record suggests better than what we're seeing at the moment. If players are also rating him, that suggests to me that the faults may lie elsewhere, at least in part.

But he has history of messing players about which he appears to be at every club he has managed. He was found guilty of assaulting Thompson and Barrett and fined 5000 dollars, he had the mutiny at Huddersfield last year.
The picture I am getting now is that his man management technique maybe conning the players short term to believe in him when in reality his coaching abilty is erratic by way of selection and game execution.
We have 7 more games to try and turn things around but I don,t have confidence that Brown is capable of improving the current players skillset and more importantly..............ATTITUDE.

Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:18 am  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

He coached an NRL team for 5 years, and took Huddersfield up a notch to cup finals and consistent high placed league finishes. That doesn't correspond to someone conning anyone about his ability. I don't think he's a real top class coach in the mould of Bennett, but his record suggests better than what we're seeing at the moment. If players are also rating him, that suggests to me that the faults may lie elsewhere, at least in part.

Were St George successful under him?

So far as Hudds are concerned, he got them to ONE cup final, which they lost, and they progressively deteriorated under him subsequent to that up to the point where they imploded in 2012. Contrast that with, say, Tony Smith at Wire, where there has been consistent challenging from a team that had previously consistently missed the boat and I'd say Brown's record certainly doesn't warrant the faith that McManus put in him (ie didn't bother interviewing anyone else, signed him up for three years).

Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:49 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

Were St George successful under him?

So far as Hudds are concerned, he got them to ONE cup final, which they lost, and they progressively deteriorated under him subsequent to that up to the point where they imploded in 2012. Contrast that with, say, Tony Smith at Wire, where there has been consistent challenging from a team that had previously consistently missed the boat and I'd say Brown's record certainly doesn't warrant the faith that McManus put in him (ie didn't bother interviewing anyone else, signed him up for three years).

But Tony Smith has brought hardly anybody through from his youth system since he came to Warrington.
On Monday night the only player on the Wire side that has come through their system since Smith arrived was Ben Currie. He fielded about ten players over the age of thirty.

I was privy to a conversation between a Wigan staff member and a Wire staff member at the U19's game at Orrell between the two teams earlier in the season.

Wire employee "Your young players did well last night, HE won't give ours a chance"

Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:46 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Were St George successful under him?

So far as Hudds are concerned, he got them to ONE cup final, which they lost, and they progressively deteriorated under him subsequent to that up to the point where they imploded in 2012. Contrast that with, say, Tony Smith at Wire, where there has been consistent challenging from a team that had previously consistently missed the boat and I'd say Brown's record certainly doesn't warrant the faith that McManus put in him (ie didn't bother interviewing anyone else, signed him up for three years).

Took them to second and knocked out of the playoffs by the eventual winners in one year, in the hothouse of the NRL, if he'd been garbage he'd have been found out in a year. He took Huddersfield a step up above what they were, had them consistently finishing at a higher level than they had previously and got them to a cup final.

I would expect Smith to be challenging given the amount of money he's spent, though he has struggled to take them the extra step to League Champions.

Whilst he may have problems as a coach, the way this year has fallen apart is too extreme for it to be his fault alone, especially if players are stating that he's a good coach.

Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:12 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

Took them to second and knocked out of the playoffs by the eventual winners in one year, in the hothouse of the NRL, if he'd been garbage he'd have been found out in a year.

That actually seems to happen in coaching to some anyway even in the NRL. For example, Daniel Anderson took the Eels to a grand final in his first year and then they plummeted down the table in the second (and he subsequently got the chop of course).

He took Huddersfield a step up above what they were, had them consistently finishing at a higher level than they had previously and got them to a cup final.

Not quite true. They didn't reach those dizzy heights again.

Whilst he may have problems as a coach, the way this year has fallen apart is too extreme for it to be his fault alone, especially if players are stating that he's a good coach.

Unless there is something going on behind the scenes at Saints - and I can't dismiss that obviously - then the only difference between last season and this is the coach.

Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:22 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Not quite true. They didn't reach those dizzy heights again.

Those dizzy heights of finishing league positions?

Unless there is something going on behind the scenes at Saints - and I can't dismiss that obviously - then the only difference between last season and this is the coach.

Is it? Have there been no other changes at all behind the scenes?

Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:50 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

Whilst he may have problems as a coach, the way this year has fallen apart is too extreme for it to be his fault alone, especially if players are stating that he's a good coach.

Who says the players think he's a good coach?
Have they been quoted in the press or on air?
Even so, they are hardly likely to say anything else, if they have to work for him after they have stated their views?

I don't think he's lost the plot; I don't think he ever had the plot.

Re: Tinker tinker enough enough : Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:20 pm  

saint at wire wrote:

Who says the players think he's a good coach?
Have they been quoted in the press or on air?
Even so, they are hardly likely to say anything else, if they have to work for him after they have stated their views?

I don't think he's lost the plot; I don't think he ever had the plot.

Some people who post on here know some players so the views have been expressed off the record. Now normally off the record stuff is as a rule honest as there is little to no comeback. When Mick Plodder was coach there was lots and lots of negative off the record stuff and this was confirmed after he left at a testimonial forum I went too (one of Ade's) by several first team players and Cunningham.

So far I'm not impressed with Brown and I'm mystified as to why the players seem to be given they all look bloody clueless on the field.