FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Brown n out??
::[url=//saints.org.uk](Website)[/url]
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2931No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
May 13 200519 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
15th Sep 24 16:3625th Mar 17 01:11LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
In Dire Straits
Signature
I HATE ALL THE PIES

Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:01 pm  
Durham Giant wrote:
Who went out of his way to sign those players, make one of them his captain and agree to contract extensions :?:

grix, , murphy, gilmour, brown, Moore, ferguson,

I disagree with you on Murphy, Ferguson, Lawrence and McGilvary. All are good solid players



:BOW:
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach5463No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 05 200915 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
5th Jan 16 11:524th Oct 14 11:37LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
Signature
Wigan vs Leeds finals aggregate score.

Wigan 178 - 64 Leeds

Wigan wins - 6 Leeds wins - 0


I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass, and I am all out of bubblegum.

Don't you struggle. Don't you fight. Don't you worry, cause it's your turn tonight!

Esse quam videri.

Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:21 pm  
Turning a side around and heading in the right direction has just got a whole lot harder with with NRL salary cap increase on it's way and the weak £. I don't think a single quality signing has been announced from the NRL for next year, Ellis apart but he really is an exception. The day's of splashing the cash and overhauling a squad with decent overseas players appears to be over. If Brown is to turn the squad around, then he'll have to do so with St Helens youngsters and fellow SL recruits only.

As for Brown at Huddersfield. I thought in his first couple of years in charge he really got them to that next level, it's subsequently where he's struggled to take them another rung up the ladder that's tarnished his reputation somewhat. As others have said it was the constant repeating of the same mistakes over an over again without rectifying them that ultimately cost him dearly.

I think he'll turn it around for you guy's, but just have far can he take you remains to be seen. Granted you've got a higher quality of player, although the gulf isn't as large as some make out. I do wonder whether his downfall has been down to the fact that he's no longer up to date with the latest techniques in the NRL as he was when he first arrived, and it's perhaps his inability to come up with his own plans and ideas as his old one's have become ineffective, that have shown him up. If that were the case it makes the job that Tony Smith has done over here all these years all that more impressive.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach16170No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 22 200816 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
27th Feb 16 22:3515th Oct 15 20:27LINK
Milestone Posts
15000
20000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Somewhere other than here
Signature
Success is not final; failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. (Winston Churchill)

Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:22 pm  
Durham Giant wrote:
Our conditioner last year obviously got training methods wrong. Some players went to NB and said we are not happy.

Did Brown go to the conditioner and discuss it NO.

He invited the conditioner into the changing room and told the players to tell the conditioner what they thought etc.

The players savaged him and left him in floods of tears as he was ripped to pieces. NB then walked out.

If that story is true - and I'm always skeptical about such stories - what it tells me is:
(a) Nathan Brown (rightly) refused to do the players' dirty work for them.
(b) Your players are a nasty, arrogant bunch who deserve bringing down a peg or two.
(c) The story backs up Brown's claim about player power - if they are willing to gang up on the conditioner and think they know better then clearly they are prepared to refuse to play for their coach because they think they know better (which, after Sunday's showing, they clearly don't).
(d) Your conditioner is too sensitive.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2931No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
May 13 200519 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
15th Sep 24 16:3625th Mar 17 01:11LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
In Dire Straits
Signature
I HATE ALL THE PIES

Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:24 pm  
Durham Giant wrote:
Whilst Brown was with us i gave him complete support.

He recieved complete support from Ken Davy re FULL salary cap and TRANSFER money to bring players in.

He Recruited the players , he signed them he identified the targets. If players are not good enough he is responsible for recruiting them.


It was his plan to have a lightweight mobile pack. This worked in the first few games but when we were caugt out there was no plan B. We are now left with a pack which has one effective prop and an OK back up.

The rest of his props this year have been Ferguson, Gilmour , Faalogo, Larne Patrick and David Faiumu. 5 second rows ( one with long standing injury problems) and a hooker.

When NB realised we were going to struggle with the pack there was a panic buying of Tony Tonks from Fev. Wire got Chris Hill.

A little story that shows what he is like

Our conditioner last year obviously got training methods wrong. Some players went to NB and said we are not happy.

Did Brown go to the conditioner and discuss it NO.

He invited the conditioner into the changing room and told the players to tell the conditioner what they thought etc.

The players savaged him and left him in floods of tears as he was ripped to pieces. NB then walked out.
There are other salacious tales which i do not know for certain are true but he is good at telling players how good they are and definitely helps players improve.

He does not however IMHO have the man management skills to motivate or make tough decisions when it goes wrong.


A SUPERB no 2 but not a head coach.

He has taken us backwards compared to his first year here.

The only advantage Saints have over the Giants is a better and more established youth set up. Mcmanus has no more money than Davy, the Salary Cap is the same.

We will wait and see


You talk a lot of sense and I take on board many of your points but fortunately due to another benefactor we have pots of money and don't owe the bank even 1p which allows a better (well more expensive) support staff setup.
Also, bigger crowds and the prospects (see bookies odds and recent i.e. SL history) of winning things will attract better quality players, even with the same SC. At least that is the theory.
The crowd for the SF - how many did you take - 3,000? :oops:
Last edited by saint at wire on Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2931No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
May 13 200519 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
15th Sep 24 16:3625th Mar 17 01:11LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
In Dire Straits
Signature
I HATE ALL THE PIES

Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:27 pm  
SaintsFan wrote:
If that story is true - and I'm always skeptical about such stories - what it tells me is:
(a) Nathan Brown (rightly) refused to do the players' dirty work for them.
(b) Your players are a nasty, arrogant bunch who deserve bringing down a peg or two.
(c) The story backs up Brown's claim about player power - if they are willing to gang up on the conditioner and think they know better then clearly they are prepared to refuse to play for their coach because they think they know better (which, after Sunday's showing, they clearly don't).
(d) Your conditioner is too sensitive.



Hmmm. It would seem Brown had no authority or influence with the players if the story is true.
No team will win anything if players decide tactics etc. I'm more than a little concerned.

Also, I wouldn't blame the players as it looks like Brown not only gave them the gun but loaded it, cocked it and aimed it for them. Who want to work for him as part of the support/coaching staff if thats the support he gives them?
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach16170No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 22 200816 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
27th Feb 16 22:3515th Oct 15 20:27LINK
Milestone Posts
15000
20000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Somewhere other than here
Signature
Success is not final; failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. (Winston Churchill)

Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:29 pm  
LovesToSpooge wrote:
I don't think a single quality signing has been announced from the NRL for next year,

What's that got to do with anything? Since when did we start this stupid notion of setting the benchmark as the NRL? Look at Jammer, the Burgess brothers, Widdop for God's sake (forgotten and unattended in Halifax, right on the Yorkshire clubs' doorsteps). They all look as good down under as they did here. We just need to stop looking over there and instead look closer to home. There will be some gems we are missing. Look at Chris Hill over at Warrington or Hardaker at Leeds. Both Championship players until very recently. I am extremely glad the salary cap has escalated in Australia and the pound is useless because we might stop this stupid obsession with NRL players then and instead give our home grown talent a chance.

But my personal hobby horse aside, I've had my doubts about the recruitment of Brown since the moment it was announced. However, as with other coaches before him, I will keep an open mind and give him a season before getting off the fence.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach16963No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 07 200916 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
27th Nov 17 11:145th Oct 17 15:58LINK
Milestone Posts
15000
20000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Signature
Mugwump mocking mental illness for a second time -

"You are mentally ill and I can't indulge your madness any more"

Utter disgusting abusive remark from a keyboard warrior

Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:33 pm  
saint at wire wrote:
Hmmm. It would seem Brown had no authority or influence with the players if the story is true.
No team will win anything if players decide tactics etc. I'm more than a little concerned.

Also, I wouldn't blame the players as it looks like Brown not only gave them the gun but loaded it, cocked it and aimed it for them. Who want to work for him as part of the support/coaching staff if thats the support he gives them?



I don't beleive that story one bit. Brown is a strict coach and got told by a saints coach that some players wont know what's hit them when he arrives.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2931No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
May 13 200519 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
15th Sep 24 16:3625th Mar 17 01:11LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
In Dire Straits
Signature
I HATE ALL THE PIES

Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:35 pm  
St pete wrote:
I don't beleive that story one bit. Brown is a strict coach and got told by a saints coach that some players wont know what's hit them when he arrives.



He is not that strict Pete when he allows player power to change his selection and tactics?
The only word for that is weak.
RankPostsTeam
International Star549No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
May 17 201113 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
19th Mar 13 09:1718th Mar 13 19:59LINK
Milestone Posts
500
1000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:38 pm  
If he letting the player power take over at hudderfield got help him at saints
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach16170No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 22 200816 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
27th Feb 16 22:3515th Oct 15 20:27LINK
Milestone Posts
15000
20000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Somewhere other than here
Signature
Success is not final; failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. (Winston Churchill)

Re: Brown n out?? : Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:40 pm  
saint at wire wrote:
Hmmm. It would seem Brown had no authority or influence with the players if the story is true.
How so? What has authority and influence got to do with them telling the conditioner what they think he is doing wrong?

Also, I wouldn't blame the players as it looks like Brown not only gave them the gun but loaded it, cocked it and aimed it for them. Who want to work for him as part of the support/coaching staff if thats the support he gives them?

Conditioners work for the club, not the coach, don't they? They have to work with the coach, obviously, but I don't think they are accountable to him are they? I remember Simmons saying when he first arrived that our conditioner had asked him for his (Simmons) plan because Potter always wrote his own plan which the conditioner then executed. Simmons didn't do that; he considered the conditioner to be the 'expert' in that field and so gave him a free reign. It could have been simply Brown forcing the players to man up rather than hide behind him and whinge behind the conditioner's back. We will never know. We don't even know if the story is remotely true!

Either way, no doubt we will discover over time whether our players are happy bunnies under Brown or not.
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 106 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to St. Helens


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
2m
Shopping list for 2025
RockNRolla
5357
15m
2025 membership/renewals
Dave K.
50
39m
Tonights match v HKR
rubber ducki
110
43m
Film game
Boss Hog
4246
58m
SL Grand Final
Wollo-Wollo-
3
Recent
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40226
Recent
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
62670
Recent
George Hirst
Cruncher
22
Recent
Finn out Murrell in
Hudd-Shay
43
Recent
Has anyone got any idea what is going on
Halfdan of t
26
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
54s
Terrace wear
retrosports
3
55s
Tonights match v HKR
rubber ducki
110
57s
Recruitment rumours and links
Or thane
3312
1m
2025 membership/renewals
Dave K.
50
1m
SL Grand Final
Wollo-Wollo-
3
1m
Shopping list for 2025
RockNRolla
5357
1m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40226
1m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2440
1m
Who do you want to win the Grand Final
just_browny
57
2m
2024 Southstandercom Prediction Competition Grand Final
Rixy
4
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
SL Grand Final
Wollo-Wollo-
3
TODAY
Spirit of the Rhinos documentary
christopher
1
TODAY
Grand Final
SirStan
1
TODAY
Terrace wear
retrosports
3
TODAY
OT Rohan Smith -
Trebor1
3
TODAY
Alfie johnson CONFIRMED 2 year deal
Smiffy27
16
TODAY
Brian Lockwood RIP
1315trinity
6
TODAY
Grand Final Squad
NickyKiss
16
TODAY
Kit for Saturday
Pie Eyed
8
TODAY
George Hirst
Cruncher
22
TODAY
Player of the Season 2024
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Released Players List
Jemmo
4
TODAY
IN 2025 Jake Connor - Expires 2026
Exeter Rhino
21
TODAY
Has anyone got any idea what is going on
Halfdan of t
26
TODAY
Awards
The Avenger
11
TODAY
dan russell confirmed 2 year contract
Wires71
13
TODAY
Play-off Semi Final Toulouse A
Pyrah123
21
TODAY
2025 Catalans Dragons Kit
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Oli Leyland confirmed 2 year deal
ninearches
17
TODAY
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Grand Final
rubber ducki
14
TODAY
Transfer Talk V5
ducknumber1
91
TODAY
OUT 2025 Leon Ruan - Released
Emagdnim13
14
TODAY
IN 2025 Cooper Jenkins - Expires 2026
ArthurClues
32
TODAY
Search Sexy Girls from your city for night - Authentic Damse
excruciating
2
TODAY
IN 2025 Keenan Palasia - Expires 2026
BigRoy
13
TODAY
2024 Southstandercom Prediction Competition Grand Final
Rixy
4
TODAY
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back Grand Finals
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
632
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
751
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
544
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
666
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
682
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
1063
Leigh Leopards Make Play Off P..
1145
Catalans Dragons Finish Sevent..
1520
Hull KR Secure Second With Vic..
1652
Wigan Seal League Leaders Trop..
1445
Wakefield Trinity Sweep Aside ..
1809
Catalans Keep Season Alive Wit..
1636
Salford Ensure Play-Offs And S..
1867
Ruthless Wigan Thrash the Rhin..
2130
Huddersfield Giants Hold Off L..
2666
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Sat 12th Oct
SL
18:00
Hull KR-Wigan
Sun 13th Oct
CH
19:30
Swinton-Hunslet
Sun 27th Oct
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sat 2nd Nov
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sun 6th Oct
L1 26 Keighley6-20Hunslet
CH 29 Bradford25-12Featherstone
WSL2024 16 York V18-8St.HelensW
NRL 31 Melbourne6-14Penrith
Sat 5th Oct
CH 29 York27-10Widnes
SL 29 Wigan38-0Leigh
Fri 4th Oct
SL 29 Hull KR10-8Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 28 759 336 423 46
Hull KR 28 729 335 394 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 26 1010 262 748 50
Bradford 27 703 399 304 36
Toulouse 25 744 368 376 35
York 28 682 479 203 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Swinton 27 474 670 -196 18
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 0 0 0 0 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
2m
Shopping list for 2025
RockNRolla
5357
15m
2025 membership/renewals
Dave K.
50
39m
Tonights match v HKR
rubber ducki
110
43m
Film game
Boss Hog
4246
58m
SL Grand Final
Wollo-Wollo-
3
Recent
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40226
Recent
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
62670
Recent
George Hirst
Cruncher
22
Recent
Finn out Murrell in
Hudd-Shay
43
Recent
Has anyone got any idea what is going on
Halfdan of t
26
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
54s
Terrace wear
retrosports
3
55s
Tonights match v HKR
rubber ducki
110
57s
Recruitment rumours and links
Or thane
3312
1m
2025 membership/renewals
Dave K.
50
1m
SL Grand Final
Wollo-Wollo-
3
1m
Shopping list for 2025
RockNRolla
5357
1m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40226
1m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2440
1m
Who do you want to win the Grand Final
just_browny
57
2m
2024 Southstandercom Prediction Competition Grand Final
Rixy
4
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
SL Grand Final
Wollo-Wollo-
3
TODAY
Spirit of the Rhinos documentary
christopher
1
TODAY
Grand Final
SirStan
1
TODAY
Terrace wear
retrosports
3
TODAY
OT Rohan Smith -
Trebor1
3
TODAY
Alfie johnson CONFIRMED 2 year deal
Smiffy27
16
TODAY
Brian Lockwood RIP
1315trinity
6
TODAY
Grand Final Squad
NickyKiss
16
TODAY
Kit for Saturday
Pie Eyed
8
TODAY
George Hirst
Cruncher
22
TODAY
Player of the Season 2024
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Released Players List
Jemmo
4
TODAY
IN 2025 Jake Connor - Expires 2026
Exeter Rhino
21
TODAY
Has anyone got any idea what is going on
Halfdan of t
26
TODAY
Awards
The Avenger
11
TODAY
dan russell confirmed 2 year contract
Wires71
13
TODAY
Play-off Semi Final Toulouse A
Pyrah123
21
TODAY
2025 Catalans Dragons Kit
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Oli Leyland confirmed 2 year deal
ninearches
17
TODAY
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Grand Final
rubber ducki
14
TODAY
Transfer Talk V5
ducknumber1
91
TODAY
OUT 2025 Leon Ruan - Released
Emagdnim13
14
TODAY
IN 2025 Cooper Jenkins - Expires 2026
ArthurClues
32
TODAY
Search Sexy Girls from your city for night - Authentic Damse
excruciating
2
TODAY
IN 2025 Keenan Palasia - Expires 2026
BigRoy
13
TODAY
2024 Southstandercom Prediction Competition Grand Final
Rixy
4
TODAY
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back Grand Finals
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
632
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
751
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
544
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
666
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
682
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
1063
Leigh Leopards Make Play Off P..
1145
Catalans Dragons Finish Sevent..
1520
Hull KR Secure Second With Vic..
1652
Wigan Seal League Leaders Trop..
1445
Wakefield Trinity Sweep Aside ..
1809
Catalans Keep Season Alive Wit..
1636
Salford Ensure Play-Offs And S..
1867
Ruthless Wigan Thrash the Rhin..
2130
Huddersfield Giants Hold Off L..
2666


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!