Re: Michael Shenton : Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:16 pm  

SomersetSaint wrote:

Don't really know much about Larne Patrick, but what do you mean about the type of prop saints fans want?

I think Saints fans hark back to the days of Baloo and fasavalu. Huge guys who did relatively short minutes but left people realing on the floor. People also tend to forget the missed hits, the holes left in the line and the grounders who would do the hard yards inbetween for these guys to do their short spells.

Re: Michael Shenton : Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:26 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

I think Saints fans hark back to the days of Baloo and fasavalu. Huge guys who did relatively short minutes but left people realing on the floor. People also tend to forget the missed hits, the holes left in the line and the grounders who would do the hard yards inbetween for these guys to do their short spells.

in 05 an 06 , there werent many missed hits, and if baloo hit you, you knew it!

Re: Michael Shenton : Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:10 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

Glad to read that its confirmed about Shenton leaving.

Think he has been a massive disappointment for us.
In part i think this is down to Saints forward orientated style of play, but also down to the fact he is a player that needs to be put through a gap to do anything.

If we really have signed Jordan Turner then he will struggle to perform as anonymously as Shenton has at Saints.

I would not expect Turner to be a world beater, but he should still be able to offer more of a threat with ball in hand than Shenton.
He is also quite a bit quicker than Shenton as well, which is always a bonus as pace is something we lack.

This year Turner has 26 tackle busts and 12 clean breaks and has chipped in for an impressive 1268 metres or 8.34 metres a carry
Shenton has 14 tackle busts and 5 clean breaks with only 772 metres returning the ball or 6.48 metres a carry
The one area Shenton does well at is the overall workrate in defence, were he has made 246 tackles compared to Jordan Turners 102.
I think this is in part because other teams are aware of our strong pack but weak three quarters, so attack us down the flanks. Hull on the other hand have fast backs so dont get worked over as heavily out wide as its harder to get round the outside of them.

Yes. That's one interpretation of this.

Another is that Shenton was badly served with the ball but made up for this with a decent defence. Turner will struggle equally badly without decent ball in attack but is quite frankly poo in defence. In all the games I have watched of hull recently, he is absolutely clueless in defence; positioning / technique / judgement et al.
IMO certainly no improvement on Shenton.

Now Manu is a different proposition.............

Re: Michael Shenton : Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:34 pm  

N

SomersetSaint wrote:

What happened to the young prop at Widnes we were chasing?

Transfer fee involved

Re: Michael Shenton : Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:36 pm  

Prophecies of Turner's demise at the club (should he come) are worthless. As we've seen from Shenton - there's many a good prospect moved to a big club and achieved nothing whilst unheralded ones have fed off better players to raise their game.

Re: Michael Shenton : Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:48 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

there's many a good prospect moved to a big club and achieved nothing whilst unheralded ones have fed off better players to raise their game.

...but there's a lot more unheralded players who've moved to bigger clubs and disappeared without a trace... Swapping Shenton for Turner + salary cap space may come off, but is more likely not to. If we haven't got another centre lined up for the right flank for next season (and not some 18 year old kid who may or may not become a good player eventually) then we're probably going to regret it a very great deal.

Re: Michael Shenton : Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:02 pm  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

...but there's a lot more unheralded players who've moved to bigger clubs and disappeared without a trace... Swapping Shenton for Turner + salary cap space may come off, but is more likely not to. If we haven't got another centre lined up for the right flank for next season (and not some 18 year old kid who may or may not become a good player eventually) then we're probably going to regret it a very great deal.

For a club which has struggled for the best part of three years with a chronic lack of pace in the three quarters Turner is a useful asset. After all, defence can be coached. Speed can not. In any case, much depends on the size of the contract. Provided he isn't on insane money I don't have a problem taking a punt on him.

I'm far more worried by the prospect of signing a 33 year old on a substantial wage in the wildly optimistic hope of squeezing three good years out him.

Re: Michael Shenton : Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:09 pm  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

Swapping Shenton for Turner + salary cap space may come off, but is more likely not to

How have you come to that conclusion? Shenton has been average at best since he arrived, if we are saving money on the cap and bringing someone else who could also be described as average then I don't see how it won't 'come off'.

We put the extra cap space towards an extra player we need and shift out a player on 'international' money who shouldn't be commanding anywhere near such. We even get some pace in the backline for a change as part of the deal. Shrewd bit of business if ever I've seen it.

Re: Michael Shenton : Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:21 pm  

Smurf wrote:

How have you come to that conclusion? Shenton has been average at best since he arrived, if we are saving money on the cap and bringing someone else who could also be described as average then I don't see how it won't 'come off'.

We put the extra cap space towards an extra player we need and shift out a player on 'international' money who shouldn't be commanding anywhere near such. We even get some pace in the backline for a change as part of the deal. Shrewd bit of business if ever I've seen it.

Put it this way - Shenton may have been average, but give Turner the kind of service Shenton's had and he'll be a lot less than average. And **** in defence to boot. Shenton on form is a far better player than Turner has been so far at any stage of his career. As I say it may work out and Turner may be a sensation, but it's more likely that it won't. It all depends on whether you're a gambling man or not - personally I'm not and would rather have the proven international class centre who's had a couple of dodgy seasons starved of possession and/or recovering from serious injury over the punt on a kid who may be great but is more likely to be nothing like.

Re: Michael Shenton : Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:23 pm  

Cragganmore Kid wrote:

We couldn't catch him.

Yeah we sent Wellens after him