Re: Is this season a write off? : Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:47 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

I was simply pointing out that your arguement that Royce got us to a GF therefore should be given some grace, was not something that you yourself thought the club should have applied to Potter, but where arguing the club should have applied to Royce.

Except it was! I repeat: I only judged him in his second season and by the end of that season a lot of people had come to my way of thinking.

However, we didn't have Langtree Park to worry about when Potter was with us and personally I think that is the reason why Royce has been sacked. Very narrowly losing four games on the spin at KR wouldn't have been the issue it has been at Langtree Park where Mr Big needs his friends' money back and expectations on coach and players have been ultra high.

For what it's worth I think Royce should have been given more time. He turned things around last year and because of that I was prepared to give him time to turn things around this. I was basing my judgement upon the evidence of the previous season, just as I did with Potter. I'm entirely consistent here.

I also happen to admire the man himself for his integrity and his commitment to our team, club and sport. In light of that as well as his achievements in the face of many odds last year I think he has been treated very unjustly.

Re: Is this season a write off? : Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:10 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

I'm entirely consistent here.

With all due respect, from the point of veiw of some one who regulary reads your posts, the difference in your stance on the two coaches has no consistancy.
A number of other posters would argue for Potter's plus points. None of us thought he was perfect, but we'd argue that he'd kept us competetive when key players had left, he'd brought through youngsters and intergrated them well without overloading them etc, etc, etc. Through said debates you would deflect any recognition of acheivement toward the players, backroom staff and the board, but never compliment the coach. Whereas, this year, through our slump, you've levelled the blame in the opposite direction at feet of the senior players, leaving very little blame with Royce. That is not consistent.

I admire that your pasionate about saints and appreciate that you think Royce is hard done to. Do I think that, come the end of the season, we'll finish up any better or worse than if we'd have kept him? Possibly not, but the coming weeks will at least see us attempt some new stuff, it willl give the players a boost in motivation (in order to prove it was the coach and not, as you have speculated the players lacking drive) but, most significantly, will chance the mood on the terrace - a poor performance will no longer be met which allegations that the coach doesn't know what he's doing, instead, we'll put it down to the two guys filling in being inexperienced and doing thier best in a bad situation, knowing that next year we'll have a shiney new coach to make everything right. Why is this so significant? Ticket sales - Like it or not, we've got Langtree park to pay for now and the mindnumbingly uninspriring attacking performances are doing nothing to attract fans, they're putting them off. The boring victories of Potter's tenure may not have had them flooding to the turnstiles, but it wouldn't have done them any harm. This was the major factor in Royce going imo and to be honest, given how annoyed I was at this point last season and how annoyed I was after the awful Hull game, I can see why people wouldn't inclined to pay for a season ticket that leaves you watching dross for 50% of the games.

Re: Is this season a write off? : Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:17 am  

Back on topic - is this season a write off? Of course not.

We have a squad that can compete and I'm sure that's what we'll do with a bit of tweaking to our approach.

Also depends what you mean by write off - are we talking just trophies or is a large part of the season as fans about enjoyment? If we see the players unchained a little and playing with a bit more enterprise, we could all rather enjoy the rest of this year in our shiny new stadium - that would make 2012 far from a write off IMO.

Re: Is this season a write off? : Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:22 am  

FearTheVee wrote:

Back on topic - is this season a write off? Of course not.

Well as I said, the change in coaching staff means our expectations will change.
I think a trophy is unrealistic, although you can never tell with cup competetions..
What do I want fromt he rest of the season, to finish comfortably in the top 8 and give the playoff a decent crack.
I'll take whatever we get from the CC.

Re: Is this season a write off? : Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:23 am  

Offside Monkey wrote:

With all due respect, from the point of veiw of some one who regulary reads your posts, the difference in your stance on the two coaches has no consistancy.
A number of other posters would argue for Potter's plus points. None of us thought he was perfect, but we'd argue that he'd kept us competetive when key players had left, he'd brought through youngsters and intergrated them well without overloading them etc, etc, etc. Through said debates you would deflect any recognition of acheivement toward the players, backroom staff and the board, but never compliment the coach. Whereas, this year, through our slump, you've levelled the blame in the opposite direction at feet of the senior players, leaving very little blame with Royce. That is not consistent.

I admire that your pasionate about saints and appreciate that you think Royce is hard done to. Do I think that, come the end of the season, we'll finish up any better or worse than if we'd have kept him? Possibly not, but the coming weeks will at least see us attempt some new stuff, it willl give the players a boost in motivation (in order to prove it was the coach and not, as you have speculated the players lacking drive) but, most significantly, will chance the mood on the terrace - a poor performance will no longer be met which allegations that the coach doesn't know what he's doing, instead, we'll put it down to the two guys filling in being inexperienced and doing thier best in a bad situation, knowing that next year we'll have a shiney new coach to make everything right. Why is this so significant? Ticket sales - Like it or not, we've got Langtree park to pay for now and the mindnumbingly uninspriring attacking performances are doing nothing to attract fans, they're putting them off. The boring victories of Potter's tenure may not have had them flooding to the turnstiles, but it wouldn't have done them any harm. This was the major factor in Royce going imo and to be honest, given how annoyed I was at this point last season and how annoyed I was after the awful Hull game, I can see why people wouldn't inclined to pay for a season ticket that leaves you watching dross for 50% of the games.

Excellent post, in every respect.

Re: Is this season a write off? : Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:56 am  

Offside Monkey wrote:

With all due respect, from the point of veiw of some one who regulary reads your posts, the difference in your stance on the two coaches has no consistancy.

There is only one inconsistency: I voted against Potter and for Simmons. That's all your rambling is about at the end of the day.

Re: Is this season a write off? : Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:04 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

:lol:

There is only one inconsistency: I voted against Potter and for Simmons. That's all your rambling is about at the end of the day.

OK

Re: Is this season a write off? : Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:11 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

:lol:

There is only one inconsistency: I voted against Potter and for Simmons. That's all your rambling is about at the end of the day.

I think what he's trying to suggest is that you weren't that vociferous towards Simmons because you'd already pinned your colours to the mast very early on that he was going to be better than Potter. That he hasn't is perhaps a reason to reflect on such things.

Btw I'm not suggesting any of that is accurate or true because that's your call not mine.

As for this season? If somebody hasn't said it already "Never write the Saints off."

Re: Is this season a write off? : Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:20 pm  

McClennan wrote:

I think what he's trying to suggest is that you weren't that vociferous towards Simmons because you'd already pinned your colours to the mast very early on that he was going to be better than Potter. That he hasn't is perhaps a reason to reflect on such things.

I know what he was trying to suggest but short of me digging up copious posts from three years ago, his efforts are wasted because his suggestion is bollox. I supported both during the first season; it was during the second season that I found myself unable to support Potter and until our defence tightened up, I was having doubts about Royce's defensive capabilities too (and indeed noted the same on here).