Re: Full Back : Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:35 pm  

Blobbynator wrote:

I'd say that's a pretty important when you don't really have a natural field kicker in the team.

Gaskell to me is the most natural half of the three. His passing is better, he runs the more natural lines and I think he's a good organiser that will improve given more maturity.

I'd add to that the ability to read the game and to think on his feet, eg when he couldn't reach a ball in the first play off against Wigan he turned it into a very good grubber which won us a drop out if memory serves.

He can also drop goals!

Re: Full Back : Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:40 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

I'd add to that the ability to read the game and to think on his feet, eg when he couldn't reach a ball in the first play off against Wigan he turned it into a very good grubber which won us a drop out if memory serves.

I'd agree with that too. He's just more natural than the other two who are good individual players, but I'm not sure they really have a true position. I think they're good supporting halves who are so good they can play 3 or 4 other positions strongly.

Re: Full Back : Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:09 pm  

Blobbynator wrote:

I'd say that's a pretty important when you don't really have a natural field kicker in the team.

Gaskell to me is the most natural half of the three. His passing is better, he runs the more natural lines and I think he's a good organiser that will improve given more maturity. Mid way through last year I thought a loan spell would benefit him, but he's come on massively and the Play Offs & Grand Final were big games which he handled pretty well. If I was picking the side he'd be the 1st half I'd pick alongside Hohaia or Lomax.

It's nice to have options for a change, unlike last year.

I know kicking is important but it was a question to an earlier post. Personally i don't think his kicking is consistent enough to warrant a first team place. I don't want to come accross too negative because he is only young and learning but he's not the player a lot of you make him out to be. IMO he's the 3rd choice stand off at Saints. Do you think he is a better passer, organiser and runner than either Lomax or Hohaia? I think Hohaia is stronger than him in all area's except kicking cause i'm yet to see that from him. Gaskell for me picks the wrong option a lot of the time I don't know wether it's down to experience but a loan spell would do him good and would allow Saints to have a look at his game when he isn't surrounded by world class players.

Re: Full Back : Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:46 pm  

lyono wrote:

I know kicking is important but it was a question to an earlier post. Personally i don't think his kicking is consistent enough to warrant a first team place. I don't want to come accross too negative because he is only young and learning but he's not the player a lot of you make him out to be. IMO he's the 3rd choice stand off at Saints. Do you think he is a better passer, organiser and runner than either Lomax or Hohaia? I think Hohaia is stronger than him in all area's except kicking cause i'm yet to see that from him. Gaskell for me picks the wrong option a lot of the time I don't know wether it's down to experience but a loan spell would do him good and would allow Saints to have a look at his game when he isn't surrounded by world class players.

I was picking out his kicking game but it is far from his only feature. He is a better organiser and passer, as for runner, I'm not so sure. I would say Lomax is a better runner at the minute as he has that very attractive explosive running style. But for me Gaskell is quick, but with those ong legs he looks like he is not really going at pace. I'd go so far to say with a bit more meat on his bones those runs from Leon Pryce that we used to see will become more common from Gaskell. He hits holes at pace at the moment. Sometimes busting through with just pace. But without the bulk, stronger players can just about hold him.

Once he bulks out, that pace and momentum added to the muscle will give him all the attributes. Not many halfbacks have all the attributes, but this lad can have it all, passing,kicking, running, add in a fend and well, scary is the word.

He did pick wrong options at the start of last year, but as the year went on you could see his percentage just get better and better, same with his defence his position and strength in the tackle saved us many a try.

All great teams need 3 pivots it used to be halfbacks and loose for Saints. But if loose is now becoming a prop role, then a pivot at FB it will have to be, we can accomodate 3 half backs, Wigan accomodated 4 last year. It's just about making some tough choices, and showing players they can be what they want to be no matter the number on their backs.

Re: Full Back : Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:14 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

I was picking out his kicking game but it is far from his only feature. He is a better organiser and passer, as for runner, I'm not so sure. I would say Lomax is a better runner at the minute as he has that very attractive explosive running style. But for me Gaskell is quick, but with those ong legs he looks like he is not really going at pace. I'd go so far to say with a bit more meat on his bones those runs from Leon Pryce that we used to see will become more common from Gaskell. He hits holes at pace at the moment. Sometimes busting through with just pace. But without the bulk, stronger players can just about hold him.

Once he bulks out, that pace and momentum added to the muscle will give him all the attributes. Not many halfbacks have all the attributes, but this lad can have it all, passing,kicking, running, add in a fend and well, scary is the word.

He did pick wrong options at the start of last year, but as the year went on you could see his percentage just get better and better, same with his defence his position and strength in the tackle saved us many a try.

All great teams need 3 pivots it used to be halfbacks and loose for Saints. But if loose is now becoming a prop role, then a pivot at FB it will have to be, we can accomodate 3 half backs, Wigan accomodated 4 last year. It's just about making some tough choices, and showing players they can be what they want to be no matter the number on their backs.

I am not too impressed by him if i'm honest. I've got a few video's from the grand final that i'll try to upload where a simple pass from him would have left us with a huge overlap but he decided to run everytime. I don't think hes much of an organiser. He may be a good passer but for me he's dummying and taking the ball in himself too much when all he needs to do is a simple pass. His defence did improve but i think being moved next to Shenton played a big part in that. I don't remeber him going through many gaps last year never mind people struggling to hold him down. I know it's early days but i don't think we'll see Gaskell at Saints past his current contract.

Re: Full Back : Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:10 am  

lyono wrote:

I am not too impressed by him if i'm honest. I've got a few video's from the grand final that i'll try to upload where a simple pass from him would have left us with a huge overlap but he decided to run everytime. I don't think hes much of an organiser. He may be a good passer but for me he's dummying and taking the ball in himself too much when all he needs to do is a simple pass. His defence did improve but i think being moved next to Shenton played a big part in that. I don't remeber him going through many gaps last year never mind people struggling to hold him down. I know it's early days but i don't think we'll see Gaskell at Saints past his current contract.

Lee Gaskell must have an identical cousin or something because you are describing a completely different individual to the one I was watching last season.

Some of his one on one tackles were outstanding; he ghosts through the line, Leon style; his presence on the pitch on Friday changed the game; he has pace, speed of thought and a degree of craft. You can't hold his inexperience against him and that was his first GF so if he made mistakes then that is just part of his learning process. He certainly learns from his mistakes as was witnessed during the 2011 season.

Re: Full Back : Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:15 pm  

Blobbynator wrote:

I'd say that's a pretty important when you don't really have a natural field kicker in the team.

Gaskell to me is the most natural half of the three. His passing is better, he runs the more natural lines and I think he's a good organiser that will improve given more maturity. Mid way through last year I thought a loan spell would benefit him, but he's come on massively and the Play Offs & Grand Final were big games which he handled pretty well. If I was picking the side he'd be the 1st half I'd pick alongside Hohaia or Lomax.

It's nice to have options for a change, unlike last year.

Spot on and I agree with everything you've said, no better way to sum it up really.

Re: Full Back : Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:44 pm  

Gaskell appears to divide opinion.
I have ALWAYS been a big fan as you will all know on here.

However, at a party over Christmas I was talking to a Saints season ticket holder whose son played for one of the Saints scholarship sides. His point on Gaskell was "He can't pass accurately" and is a poor decision maker

He asked me to watch carefully the next time I see Gaskell play (I will).

it's certainly something I hadn't noticed in his game, but then thought back to our last game at Widnes when he made the break and then went completely in the wrong direction away from his support.

As I have said before, I've watched him at U18 and U20 level and he has always been a danger and IMO never really got the credit he deserved as he was moved between fullback, centre, stand off and scrum half which made things difficult for him.

Re: Full Back : Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:53 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Gaskell appears to divide opinion.
I have ALWAYS been a big fan as you will all know on here.

However, at a party over Christmas I was talking to a Saints season ticket holder whose son played for one of the Saints scholarship sides. His point on Gaskell was "He can't pass accurately" and is a poor decision maker

He asked me to watch carefully the next time I see Gaskell play (I will).

it's certainly something I hadn't noticed in his game, but then thought back to our last game at Widnes when he made the break and then went completely in the wrong direction away from his support.

As I have said before, I've watched him at U18 and U20 level and he has always been a danger and IMO never really got the credit he deserved as he was moved between fullback, centre, stand off and scrum half which made things difficult for him.

Interesting, I've not noticed the passing accuracy, although its been a long time since we've had a 6 who I'd describe as accurate.
He made some poor decisions in the GF, but before that, no one really picked up on a problem.

Regarding the break at Widnes, i remeber the full back and the chasers sheparding him quite well, but it look like he ballsed it up.

What we know is things look a lot better for Saints when he's on the pitch.

Re: Full Back : Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:01 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Makinson at fullback, Gaskell at 6 and Lomax at 7 are essentials for me. I will personally organise the first 'Sack the board' riots if we start the season with Wello at 1.

Wellens, as much as I love him for his efforts over the years, is awful. He is easily the worst fullback in the league and contributes nothing. He can't judge high kicks, he cost us tries several times in crucial games last season. He doesn't contribute to the attack, doesn't chime into the line and never beats the first man from kicks.

His time is up.

I have been saying this for the last 3 years at least. I think we need Saddened as a Moderator.