Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:18 am  

The Chair Maker wrote:

....across the Oceans a leviathan has awoken. ..

ANd now a Hebrew biblical reference. It's like being at Oxford on 'ere.

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:32 am  

The Chair Maker wrote:

I disagreed with you on the union bit, but said i expected the NRL to become a magnate for British RL players and potentially like the NBA in Basketball or NHL in ice Hockey. That doesnt mean league is dieing it means its growing.

Mugs you are talking British RL , i am looking at the bigger picture. Just as you cant look at RU without taking in their international game, so you cant take in the state of RL without looking at the NRL.

I also disagree about there being no point to the game if you are not watching superstars.
RL has never had genuine superstars in this country it has only ever had local heroes. As such to be a fan of RL you cant be someone hypnotised by glamour, because there is little hype and glamour in British RL. What attracts people to RL is the game itself, and the genuine feeling of community amongst its followers.
You see the same thing outside the realms of Premiership football. Tens of thousands of fans watch championship teams knowing those players are second rate, but they do so because they love their football and are passionate in following their local side.




Well said Shakespear could not have put it better.

In a war there are always casualties. We will lose a few good men along the way, but just as Britain stood firm against the Nazi Hordes so should RL stand firm against the Twickenham white shirts. For we know that across the Oceans a leviathan has awoken. Just as the USA turned the tide against Hitler, the Australian NRL will ensure that League wins the Rugby war.

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:27 am  

Mugwump wrote:

Why use the NRL's windfall as a counterargument when it was conceded in the first place? We're talking BRITISH rugby here. Not the world game. And what good a cash-rich NRL will do SL I've no idea. Sure, we benefit at international level but what's the point if the game HERE has become a joke with washed-up, third-rate deadbeats being the star men at the top clubs?

I would suggest that a rich NRL will mean that the idea of swapping to union for the reward of England money will be less inticing.
For every Chris Aston there is a Chev Walker, a Karl Pryce and a Lee Smith. RU isn't a cake walk any more.

Personally, I think we'll see Eastmond rip it up at club level for Bath, but struggle to impact internationally, due to his size not being what the Union selectors are after. If he doesn't, then he wont be any better off than he would of if he'd have been playing for Saints, except he's wasted a year of his career when he could have been developing, he's also written off whatever chances he had of building towards a golden goose contract with a new cashed up NRL, playing a game that he 100% know he can succeed at.

That's how a rich NRL will benifit SL in its resisting Union.

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:36 am  

Mugwump wrote:

With the NRL now awash with money and Union about to spend big on the best young talent SL has to offer the future of game looks particularly uncertain at the moment.

You also forget the influence of the media. Superleague is a big draw for Sky veiwers, i reckon (if anyone has relevant stats, I'd liek to see them). They won't want a prime product of theirs suffering, just so Rugby Union can waste money on more failed poaching experiments or because the Aussie have more cash.

Rugby League is a great game and I'll watch it until the cows come home, even if a few players are poached.

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:48 am  

Offside Monkey wrote:

I would suggest that a rich NRL will mean that the idea of swapping to union for the reward of England money will be less inticing.
For every Chris Aston there is a Chev Walker, a Karl Pryce and a Lee Smith. RU isn't a cake walk any more.

Personally, I think we'll see Eastmond rip it up at club level for Bath, but struggle to impact internationally, due to his size not being what the Union selectors are after. If he doesn't, then he wont be any better off than he would of if he'd have been playing for Saints, except he's wasted a year of his career when he could have been developing, he's also written off whatever chances he had of building towards a golden goose contract with a new cashed up NRL, playing a game that he 100% know he can succeed at.

That's how a rich NRL will benifit SL in its resisting Union.

But Kyle and Joel both know that they will earn so much more in the next three years than they could have in RL. Then if it doesn't work out for them they will still be in their mid twenties and able to come back to RL and still get good money if that is their desire.

Their overall earnings in say an eight year period will be significantly more if they go the RL to RU and then back to RL route.

The figures being banded about are enormous (£250K - £400K) pa is what has been reported.

Good luck to them, I wish they had both stayed in RL but with those sort of salaries available (and the much higher profile International Game) can you really blame them?

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:30 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote: But Kyle and Joel both know that they will earn so much more in the next three years than they could have in RL. Then if it doesn't work out for them they will still be in their mid twenties and able to come back to RL and still get good money if that is their desire. Their overall earnings in say an eight year period will be significantly more if they go the RL to RU and then back to RL route. The figures being banded about are enormous (£250K - £400K) pa is what has been reported. Good luck to them, I wish they had both stayed in RL but with those sort of salaries available (and the much higher profile International Game) can you really blame them? The Salary cap in Rugby union is £4million, which is higher than I expected. A rugby union club needs to maintain a squad of around 36 players compared to 26 in league. Our salary cap is £1.65 (?) So, their average allocation per player is £111,000 per annum, compared to League's rather dissapointing £63,000 a year. That is disturbing. However, this article suggests a lot of union clubs aren't spending it and, when paired with articles like this, it doesn't suggest the english union clubs are exactly flush enough to be throwing big money about. Do we know the yearly figures that the Aviva Premiership and Engage Superleague receive from their Sky contract?

Rogues Gallery wrote: But Kyle and Joel both know that they will earn so much more in the next three years than they could have in RL. Then if it doesn't work out for them they will still be in their mid twenties and able to come back to RL and still get good money if that is their desire. Their overall earnings in say an eight year period will be significantly more if they go the RL to RU and then back to RL route. The figures being banded about are enormous (£250K - £400K) pa is what has been reported. Good luck to them, I wish they had both stayed in RL but with those sort of salaries available (and the much higher profile International Game) can you really blame them? The Salary cap in Rugby union is £4million, which is higher than I expected. A rugby union club needs to maintain a squad of around 36 players compared to 26 in league. Our salary cap is £1.65 (?) So, their average allocation per player is £111,000 per annum, compared to League's rather dissapointing £63,000 a year. That is disturbing. However, this article suggests a lot of union clubs aren't spending it and, when paired with articles like this, it doesn't suggest the english union clubs are exactly flush enough to be throwing big money about. Do we know the yearly figures that the Aviva Premiership and Engage Superleague receive from their Sky contract?

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:10 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote: However, this article suggests a lot of union clubs aren't spending it and, when paired with articles like this, it doesn't suggest the english union clubs are exactly flush enough to be throwing big money about. Do we know the yearly figures that the Aviva Premiership and Engage Superleague receive from their Sky contract? Stop presenting alternative viewpoints to hysteria. That kind of intellect isn't acceptable on apocalyptic RL message boards, you should know that. For heaven's sake don't post it on RedVee or it'll melt.

Offside Monkey wrote: However, this article suggests a lot of union clubs aren't spending it and, when paired with articles like this, it doesn't suggest the english union clubs are exactly flush enough to be throwing big money about. Do we know the yearly figures that the Aviva Premiership and Engage Superleague receive from their Sky contract? Stop presenting alternative viewpoints to hysteria. That kind of intellect isn't acceptable on apocalyptic RL message boards, you should know that. For heaven's sake don't post it on RedVee or it'll melt.

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:40 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

But Kyle and Joel both know that they will earn so much more in the next three years than they could have in RL. Then if it doesn't work out for them they will still be in their mid twenties and able to come back to RL and still get good money if that is their desire.

Their overall earnings in say an eight year period will be significantly more if they go the RL to RU and then back to RL route.

The figures being banded about are enormous (£250K - £400K) pa is what has been reported.

Good luck to them, I wish they had both stayed in RL but with those sort of salaries available (and the much higher profile International Game) can you really blame them?

Dont like to make a habit of agreeing with pie-eaters but you got it spot on here...both Eastmond and Tomkins can go to RU, earn in 3 years what it would take them at least double that time to earn in RL, and if it doesnt work out can come back to RL and still be young enough to continue at to level for 8-10 seasons after

The cash in RU cannot be matched by RL and I fear if the RFL dont act soon we could lose a lot more of our young stars to the dark side

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:41 pm  

The English Rugby Union youth development is still flawed with many of the old pre professional barriers - either that or boarding schools produce the best rugby union players. A look down their youth International Teams reflect little change from 20 years ago with the exceptions of George Ford and Owen Farrell, who have made an impact in that game because of their natural rugby skills and maturity in terms of rugby craft. Chris Ashton just backs up - he times his run and has the in built instinct to anticipate where to be when / if a break is made - something 10 year olds are expected to do at Thatto Heath, Pilkington Recs, St Judes or St Pats. Unions biggest issue is that Rugby League exists. They cant / wont improve that terrible game out of fear it may be perceived as becoming "like league" but it wont stop the fools wanting a back line that includes Ford, Farrell, Tomkins, Tomkins and Ashton - Tuilagi and Foden might get a look in. The sad thing is not so much the loss of good players to Union, it is the missed opportunity to see these guys at their best on a stage where they will get the ball more than once or twice a game and the space to show what they can do - which is precisely what used to happen when the Union lads came to league.

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:13 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote: The Salary cap in Rugby union is £4million, which is higher than I expected. A rugby union club needs to maintain a squad of around 36 players compared to 26 in league. Our salary cap is £1.65 (?) So, their average allocation per player is £111,000 per annum, compared to League's rather dissapointing £63,000 a year. That is disturbing. However, this article suggests a lot of union clubs aren't spending it and, when paired with articles like this, it doesn't suggest the english union clubs are exactly flush enough to be throwing big money about. Do we know the yearly figures that the Aviva Premiership and Engage Superleague receive from their Sky contract? I dont see the club earnings as being a huge draw for players, but the potential earnings of an England player are astronomical. I would imagine that Ashton's earnings at Northampton are now dwarfed by his other income streams from the international game, and the endorsements that can be had. RL will never be able to compete with this, and to even try to would be suicidal for the game.

Offside Monkey wrote: The Salary cap in Rugby union is £4million, which is higher than I expected. A rugby union club needs to maintain a squad of around 36 players compared to 26 in league. Our salary cap is £1.65 (?) So, their average allocation per player is £111,000 per annum, compared to League's rather dissapointing £63,000 a year. That is disturbing. However, this article suggests a lot of union clubs aren't spending it and, when paired with articles like this, it doesn't suggest the english union clubs are exactly flush enough to be throwing big money about. Do we know the yearly figures that the Aviva Premiership and Engage Superleague receive from their Sky contract? I dont see the club earnings as being a huge draw for players, but the potential earnings of an England player are astronomical. I would imagine that Ashton's earnings at Northampton are now dwarfed by his other income streams from the international game, and the endorsements that can be had. RL will never be able to compete with this, and to even try to would be suicidal for the game.