Re: Willie Manu : Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:43 pm  

Cragganmore Kid wrote:

But if his stats are significantly better than the guy he's replacing, it's surely hard to argue he isn't of benefit to the team.

Who is he replacing exactly?

And we all know about how stats can be pretty meaningless in the context of a team. Shenton came with great stats but according to many on here he hasn't lived up to his reputation has he? Ditto Hohaia.

We haven't got a "local young guy" who can give us what Manu can give us.

And how do you know that? Young players require firstly an opportunity and then an investment. You have no idea what we have.

Re: Willie Manu : Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:47 pm  

He is replacing Flannery. And is a huge improvement. Bar TP and Sia, he's a huge improvement on any of our back rowers. The guy is top quality.

There is no one amongst the Saints youngsters even close to Manu's ability. I don't need stats to tell me that. I just need eyes.

Re: Willie Manu : Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:49 pm  

Cragganmore Kid wrote:

There is no one amongst the Saints youngsters even close to Manu's ability. I don't need stats to tell me that. I just need eyes.

I think you are confusing experience and ability. You have not seen enough of our young players playing enough game time to judge whether any who play in that position have the talent that Manu may have. For sure no young player of ours will have Manu's experience - they are young players. But talent is another matter entirely and I don't think you are in a position to judge that. You are in even less of a position if you never get the opportunity to see them play in the first team.

Re: Willie Manu : Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:55 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

I think you are confusing experience and ability. You have not seen enough of our young players playing enough game time to judge whether any who play in that position have the talent that Manu may have. For sure no young player of ours will have Manu's experience - they are young players. But talent is another matter entirely and I don't think you are in a position to judge that. You are in even less of a position if you never get the opportunity to see them play in the first team.

I'm not confusing anything; experience and ability are not mutually exclusive and Manu brings heaps of both.

I watch plenty of U20s and have seen nothing approaching the ability (that word again) of Manu. Neither, evidently, have our coaching team. Have you?

Who would you prefer, out of our first team and youth squads, to line up instead of Manu next year?

Re: Willie Manu : Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:00 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

I think you are confusing experience and ability. You have not seen enough of our young players playing enough game time to judge whether any who play in that position have the talent that Manu may have. For sure no young player of ours will have Manu's experience - they are young players. But talent is another matter entirely and I don't think you are in a position to judge that. You are in even less of a position if you never get the opportunity to see them play in the first team.

literally, get off the crack

Re: Willie Manu : Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:02 pm  

Cragganmore Kid wrote:

I'm not confusing anything; experience and ability are not mutually exclusive and Manu brings heaps of both.

He brings experience, yes. I'll reserve judgement on the rest until I have seen him play for us week in, week out.

I watch plenty of U20s and have seen nothing approaching the ability (that word again) of Manu. Neither, evidently, have our coaching team. Have you?

And you saw Manu when he was in the u20s did you? Because you would need to, to know what to look for because at that level we are talking more about potential, about basic skills that could grow, than what you see in a 32 year old who has played in the NRL.

I was happy with the way Dixon was developing at the start of the season. He was looking a much, much better player than for most of last season. If he was able to progress that much in the off season, who knows what he could have been producing in another season or two? And who knows what could be brought out of other young players showing potential? That's my

Re: Willie Manu : Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:10 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

He brings experience, yes. I'll reserve judgement on the rest until I have seen him play for us week in, week out.

And you saw Manu when he was in the u20s did you? Because you would need to, to know what to look for because at that level we are talking more about potential, about basic skills that could grow, than what you see in a 32 year old who has played in the NRL.

I was happy with the way Dixon was developing at the start of the season. He was looking a much, much better player than for most of last season. If he was able to progress that much in the off season, who knows what he could have been producing in another season or two? And who knows what could be brought out of other young players showing potential? That's my

But we're not comparing this nameless "young local guy" with "U20 Manu" because we're not signing "U20 Manu". That's an entirely different debate.

By that rationale, we should never sign anyone in case some unearthed (and unidentied) diamond might, at some unspecified point in time, be as good.

I'll ask again... who would you prefer in our current squads to Manu, and what he brings to the table now?

Re: Willie Manu : Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:16 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

I think you are confusing experience and ability. You have not seen enough of our young players playing enough game time to judge whether any who play in that position have the talent that Manu may have. For sure no young player of ours will have Manu's experience - they are young players. But talent is another matter entirely and I don't think you are in a position to judge that. You are in even less of a position if you never get the opportunity to see them play in the first team.

Saints are you kidding me ability!. Manu is AWESOME, we have no backrowers in the academy who can do what he does, in fact there are very few back rowers in the whole of SL who can do what he does. That is why Hull FC wanted him, Leeds wanted him and we wanted him.

I love having local players but I want them to take that spot on merit.

I can't understand why you would argue against signing such a good player. When we signed Newlove, we had to let 3 local lads go, plus a ton of cash for that little gem. We already had a good local centre who could kick goals, but he was replaced with a non-kicking awesome centre.

Flannery has retired and Dixon will have to go to make room for Manu but the 2 combined do not offer what Manu does on his own, seriously combine their stats and see if it works out better. Just watching Manu you can see he is a creative force for Hull.

I did not even think it would be possible to shift him from Hull as he is that good.

It's a very good signing the only risk at all is injury from age and that is not a thing you can calculate, look at Eastmond, Wheeler, both young lads with an injury record in their first few years that Manu would struggle to hit over the whole of his career. I think someone posted he has missed 3 games in 3 years. On a 2 year contract it's low risk high reward signing. (bearing in mind the salary cap).

Re: Willie Manu : Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:25 pm  

Cragganmore Kid wrote:

But we're not comparing this nameless "young local guy" with "U20 Manu" because we're not signing "U20 Manu". That's an entirely different debate.

I disagree. It is ridiculous to compare a young player fresh into the first team (or not even in there yet but showing potential in the u20s) with a player who has been around for God knows how long and played for NRL teams in the process. Just plain daft. In order to know what to look for in a 'Manu type player' you would have to know what he was like as a young player himself because that is what any potential young player of ours would look like (or be similar to).

Re: Willie Manu : Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:28 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

Saints are you kidding me ability!. Manu is AWESOME, we have no backrowers in the academy who can do what he does, in fact there are very few back rowers in the whole of SL who can do what he does. That is why Hull FC wanted him, Leeds wanted him and we wanted him.

I guess it's a question of where your priorities lie. He could be naff for us, you do know that don't you? He may shine like a beacon in the night for Hull but then do a Perry on us. After all, we are now likely to be his retirement club.

My issue is not with his talent or commitment. My issue is with what we are doing in signing an ageing import as opposed to working with the young talent that we have. I notice Wigan didn't go for him. I wonder why not.