Re: Walsh injury update : Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:37 am  

Wire Yed wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/18538370

Wane is the king of whingers, remember the moaning about protection for ickle Sam.

Now crying about Warrington helping Sydney, what do we owe Wigan? we have zero loyalty or ties to them so we can help who we f'kin well want to.

Wigan do seem to have adopted the 'take the key player out' tactic then tell us to stop being paranoid. Meanwhile bemoaning everyone else who even dares tackle their star player.

Just to take issue with a couple of your points (apologies to Saints fans -but he brought it up)

In terms of ties - you play in Super League. If Wigan get hammered by the Roosters then it affects the credibility of the competition. If it really is to be your year this year - then you might find that the NRL winners aren't that bothered about either hosting you or coming to the HJS.

Secondly the claim about taking players out is rich considering Ben Westwoods assault on Green at the start of the final when he knew he was unlikely to get sent off. Why don'y you just agree that BOTH sides are capable of dirty play?

Re: Walsh injury update : Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:37 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

That's quite a claim. I'd agree that we're far from perfect - unlike your goodselves of course. What is it that irks you so much?

I wonder what people would have said if Wigan had gone out to Aus to train with Wire's opponents (leaving aside the unlikely nature of such an occurence) in the World Club Challenge. Imagine the claims of sour grapes, undermining the British game etc. There is a feeling in Wigan that we don't get any help in this quest. Last time we played, Jeff Lima, who was our best prop at the time, was banned for the game against St George. What purpose did that serve other than to undermine Wigan's chances. Why wasn't he banned from a Super League game? (But no, rules are rules, and they weren't changed for Wigan's sake)

Personally I couldn't care less what Wire do. As if the Roosters need any help from Tony Smith (good coach that he is).

Firstly, when have we claimed Saints were anything like perfect? When Gardner and Wilkin were banned at Hull KR last season we accepted that under the new rules, a ban was to be expected. The only time I remember having a moan about a decision like that was when Puletua (I think) got sent off at Catalans in 2012, but that was before the shoulder charge rule came in I think.

Anyway, Warrington have gone over to Aus for their pre-season many times before and have also been based with the Roosters before. You are talking as though Warrington specifically went over there to help them beat Wigan.

What irks me the most is the hypocrisy of the club. Take this past week as a perfect example. Nathan Brown comes out and has a moan about Wigan's habit of off the ball challenges. Wigan fans claim he is "just being a whining Aussie" and that Shaun Wane would never moan. I then provide 2 links to prove that Wane does moan and has been guilty of everything Nathan Brown is being accused of.

Also, a couple of years ago when many Wigan fans felt Sam Tomkins was being targeted by opposition defences, you were all talking about him needing more protection from the officials. Now that it is the likes of McIlorum, Flower and Taylor dishing it out, you are telling us to stop being soft and that it is a "man's game."

As for Jeff Lima, I don't recall the particulars of what went on so I can't really comment. However it sounds like you are pretty much proving my point in that you seem to have expected the rules to change for you.

Re: Walsh injury update : Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:44 am  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

Firstly, when have we claimed Saints were anything like perfect? When Gardner and Wilkin were banned at Hull KR last season we accepted that under the new rules, a ban was to be expected. The only time I remember having a moan about a decision like that was when Puletua (I think) got sent off at Catalans in 2012, but that was before the shoulder charge rule came in I think.

Anyway, Warrington have gone over to Aus for their pre-season many times before and have also been based with the Roosters before. You are talking as though Warrington specifically went over there to help them beat Wigan.

What irks me the most is the hypocrisy of the club. Take this past week as a perfect example. Nathan Brown comes out and has a moan about Wigan's habit of off the ball challenges. Wigan fans claim he is "just being a whining Aussie" and that Shaun Wane would never moan. I then provide 2 links to prove that Wane does moan and has been guilty of everything Nathan Brown is being accused of.

Also, a couple of years ago when many Wigan fans felt Sam Tomkins was being targeted by opposition defences, you were all talking about him needing more protection from the officials. Now that it is the likes of McIlorum, Flower and Taylor dishing it out, you are telling us to stop being soft and that it is a "man's game."

As for Jeff Lima, I don't recall the particulars of what went on so I can't really comment. However it sounds like you are pretty much proving my point in that you seem to have expected the rules to change for you.

You didn't claim to be perfect I was being facetious.

You are mixing up the hypocrisy of the fans with the club. All fans are hypocritical to a greater or lesser extent.

You were right about Wane and Tomkins though the second link was a bit mild to be fair.

I think I made it clear that rules are rules and however unfair at times we all have to abide by them

Re: Walsh injury update : Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:51 am  

Southport Saint wrote:

So what your saying is players should be able to pick and choose which games they are banned for

I'm not saying that - did you really think that I was? Give me SOME credit.

The point I was making is that the offence occured in a Super League game yet he was banned for the WCC. In soccer if it happened in the Premiership he wouldn't be banned for the European Cup - he would miss a Premiership game. Same as when players are banned from Internationals after a Super League indiscretion, Like Ben Westwood was able to count the Italy friendly as part of his ban. Do you not think that it is a more sensible solution for bans to be effected in the same competition?

Re: Walsh injury update : Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:08 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

You didn't claim to be perfect I was being facetious.

You are mixing up the hypocrisy of the fans with the club. All fans are hypocritical to a greater or lesser extent.

You were right about Wane and Tomkins though the second link was a bit mild to be fair.

I think I made it clear that rules are rules and however unfair at times we all have to abide by them

Bit early in the morning for words like facetious mate!!

I think Wane is a hypocrite as well in all honesty. He is extremely blinkered; he reminds me of Arsene Wenger at Arsenal. If somebody does something to one of this players then he is the first to moan but when one of his players does it he just so happens not to see it. And before you say it, I know other coaches are guilty of this, but Wane in particular is very selective and inconsistent with his comments.

Wigan fans, as a a general rule, are the most biased individuals I have ever known.

Re: Walsh injury update : Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:26 am  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

Bit early in the morning for words like facetious mate!!

I think Wane is a hypocrite as well in all honesty. He is extremely blinkered; he reminds me of Arsene Wenger at Arsenal. If somebody does something to one of this players then he is the first to moan but when one of his players does it he just so happens not to see it. And before you say it, I know other coaches are guilty of this, but Wane in particular is very selective and inconsistent with his comments.

Wigan fans, as a a general rule, are the most biased individuals I have ever known.

I quite like the Arsene Wenger analogy. A man who is certainly blinkered but produces teams that play geat football. As you know I think very highly of Wane. I think his positives outweigh his negatives

- He gives the youngsters a chance
- He learns from his mistakes
- His teams play expansive rugby (Wigan passed the ball more than any other team last season)

Against that he is Wigan to a fault. I can see how that would annoy anyone who doesn't like us.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a coach who isn't blinkered, surely it goes with the territory. They know that 4 or 5 bad results and you're through the door (like Royce). I don't think there is a lot of time to take the broader view. I always used to look at Fergie and think why don't you stop having a go at referees, but he just couldn't help himself after all those years.

As for Wigan fans being the most biased, I'm guessing you aren't really acquainted with fans of other clubs that much. I could say the same about Saints fans (though to be honest Wire annoy me more!)

Re: Walsh injury update : Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:33 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

I'm not saying that - did you really think that I was? Give me SOME credit.

The point I was making is that the offence occured in a Super League game yet he was banned for the WCC. In soccer if it happened in the Premiership he wouldn't be banned for the European Cup - he would miss a Premiership game. Same as when players are banned from Internationals after a Super League indiscretion, Like Ben Westwood was able to count the Italy friendly as part of his ban. Do you not think that it is a more sensible solution for bans to be effected in the same competition?

What`s soccer got to do with anything, they only have 11 players in soccer should rugby league follow that as well ?

Re: Walsh injury update : Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:36 am  

Southport Saint wrote:

What`s soccer got to do with anything, they only have 11 players in soccer should rugby league follow that as well ?

Oh come on - you understand the point don't you?

Re: Walsh injury update : Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:38 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

I quite like the Arsene Wenger analogy. A man who is certainly blinkered but produces teams that play geat football. As you know I think very highly of Wane. I think his positives outweigh his negatives

- He gives the youngsters a chance
- He learns from his mistakes
- His teams play expansive rugby (Wigan passed the ball more than any other team last season)

Against that he is Wigan to a fault. I can see how that would annoy anyone who doesn't like us.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a coach who isn't blinkered, surely it goes with the territory. They know that 4 or 5 bad results and you're through the door (like Royce). I don't think there is a lot of time to take the broader view. I always used to look at Fergie and think why don't you stop having a go at referees, but he just couldn't help himself after all those years.

As for Wigan fans being the most biased, I'm guessing you aren't really acquainted with fans of other clubs that much. I could say the same about Saints fans (though to be honest Wire annoy me more!)

I am not, and have never, question his ability as a coach. I just think he comes across poorly with the media. As you say, most coaches will always try and stick up for his own players to the press, but Wane does it blindly, even when it is blatant to everyone else that he is talking nonsense. That's why he comes across as being so biased.

And you're right, I obviously see and hear more from Wigan fans than most others, but certainly on here and other forums, they come across particularly blinkered.

Re: Walsh injury update : Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:55 am  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

I am not, and have never, question his ability as a coach. I just think he comes across poorly with the media. As you say, most coaches will always try and stick up for his own players to the press, but Wane does it blindly, even when it is blatant to everyone else that he is talking nonsense. That's why he comes across as being so biased.

And you're right, I obviously see and hear more from Wigan fans than most others, but certainly on here and other forums, they come across particularly blinkered.

I'm not an expert on the human condition, but I would have thought that all fans are potentially the same.

In Rugby League fans may suffer from a small town mentality (most clubs) there may be bandwagon merchants (who follow the winning team) there are the diehards who have always supported their team, there are increasingly female fans who fall into the above categories as well as adding a civilised element (well some do) there are fans who very rarely go but pontificate on about the sport (I'll admit there are a good few of these on the Wigan boards - maybe on here too, you'd know them). But the simple fact is - there are more Wigan fans around here, so there are more to annoy you.

However I fail to see how we can be any different from yourselves. Prone to all of the things that make all fans annoying at times. If you really believe the things you are saying how can you claim to be fair minded? Maybe you don't - but I get the impression that you are pretty savvy (not being patronising - meant as a compliment).