Re: Saints v Leeds - Verdict : Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:46 pm  

McClennan wrote:

Lots of good and valid points in this thread. Without the ball I still think we look flat when coming out of the defensive line i.e. standing off the tackles. If that doesn't improve we're always going to be in a fight with a good team. Gaz highlighted that getting out of our half is a problem but that isn't helped by our defence rarely putting the opposing teams under pressure.

Wilkin at half back is still a no and I'm tired of saying this on a weekly basis but will continue to mention it for as long as coaches keep picking there because it's a consistently awful decision. It's also a decision that every coach has made when they've been here so perhaps he is throwing out 30m spirals in training and we just haven't seen that...

On the positives. We look significantly more dangerous with the ball with Lomax at full back. Numerous times last night his speed helped create the space for Percival (who didn't have to break a tackle for any of his breaks and when was the last time a full back created that much space for us?). Unfortunately for Meli it also exposed his lack of pace, as it would have done for Gardner as well, had he been on that wing. If we're going to be creating that much space in the future then we need to have somebody who can capitalise on that.

The reason he did not have to break a tackle is that he has the skill to beat a man; he made Maguire look stupid. I was also impressed with the way he handled Ablett, he (Ablett) was swatting the Aussies off like flies last week. I just hope last night was not a one off for Percival as it was the most promising debut I have seen for many years. A real Centre in the making????? One can live in hope.

Re: Saints v Leeds - Verdict : Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:50 pm  

I don't get this defensively poor idea.
I thought we where defensively quite strong against one of the more potent attacking sides in SL.

Melbourne Storm the best side in the World only restricted Leeds by one more try than us.

If you are keeping a top side to 20 points that is not bad defense. 'Lesser' sides would have struggled to score those 20 points.

The halfback situation is a bit of a given, but unless players can be offloaded mid contract, mid season, it's going to be the case all year. So we can put it in every thread from now till September or accept it and see the side as it is until next year.

I would not jump at dumping Wilkin just yet. Suggesting Lance can do better, makes me think people have no memory of the 20+ games where he had no half back qualities.



So unless we are going to throw a kid or an unknown in and risk further disruption, Wilkin had a great game last week, he struggled more this week, but you don't pick your team based on each game in isolation.

I think defensively if we can keep the better sides under 20, we should be looking to keep lesser sides under 12.

This would give us a good defensive platform, the attack is going to take time to solve, but you can see Brown is mixing it up and trying different combinations to get the best he can out of this team.

Also I did say pre-season, that Wellens could play at loose and I still think he should. Lomax showed last night against a quality team he can hold his own.

If there are any changes next week, I would only put Gaskell in for the injured Wheeler.

Lomax, Ade, Turner, Percival (unless he is too shattered after a first run out), Meli, Gaskell, Wilkin, LMS ( not sure he is ever going to improve beyond his current level but he does not bring impact so start him), Roby, TP, Sia, Manu, Clough. Laffranchi, Jones Warmsley (if fit again), Greenwood.


As for the responses saying disaster, attrocious etc, I'm not sure if that was alcohol talking but they certainly saw a different game to me. I was more frustrated about us giving over the ball in great positions, ie the Laffranchi drop and others right in the 5m area, but at the end of the game, we had enough chances to win it and just the compusure and Leeds kicking game beat what was a fairly new line up for Saints.

Re: Saints v Leeds - Verdict : Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:54 pm  

St pete wrote:

What's his defensive stats ?

Turner is at 94.5 % completion rate.

That is around same as Shenton in his first year with us but significantly ahead of Shenton in his second year.

Its slightly below that of Lyon and Gidley who were around 95-97% but on a par with that of Willie Talau.

He has made more tackles than any other of our backs and is 9th in the teams overall total of tackles made.

Re: Saints v Leeds - Verdict : Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:55 pm  

Apart from allowing Peacock to get going and Turner's few poor moments down our right, our defence wasn't horrendous. We just looked devoid of ideas in attack until we started giving it to Percival.

Re: Saints v Leeds - Verdict : Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:58 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

Turner is at 94.5 % completion rate.

That is around same as Shenton in his first year with us but significantly ahead of Shenton in his second year.

Its slightly below that of Lyon and Gidley who were around 95-97% but on a par with that of Willie Talau.

He has made more tackles than any other of our backs and is 9th in the teams overall total of tackles made.

Thanks CM.

Just as I thought, he's the new scapegoat.

IMO he's not done anything great but certainly done nothing wrong to deserve the stick he's getting

Re: Saints v Leeds - Verdict : Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:02 pm  

St. Rughead wrote:

Apart from allowing Peacock to get going and Turner's few poor moments down our right, our defence wasn't horrendous. We just looked devoid of ideas in attack until we started giving it to Percival.

That's my point but you cycle back 5 weeks to Huddersfield we looked clueless in attack and defense.

We now have pretty decent defense, creativity from fullback, more control at halfback. A centre with promise. I still think people expect Saints to suddenly turn into a team that play like the 2006 side. The game has moved on and defenses are tighter. If we turn out a similar performance against Warrington, I can see us not slipping up the same against Warrington with those defensive lapses.

I also think Turner's defense, was only exposed because Wheeler missed his tackle, it's not always the last man that caused the problem, although I did only see it once, but I recall it was a white face that seamed to get pulled out of position for the break that leeds made???

Re: Saints v Leeds - Verdict : Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:06 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

We do have someone like that. He's called Makinson and he was cooling his heels somewhere unknown instead of playing outside Percival instead of that wastrel Meli. Makinson can fly AND finish. What a great pairing those two would make. I'm sure Makinson could learn how to play on the left edge ...

AND kick goals.

Re: Saints v Leeds - Verdict : Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:08 pm  

St pete wrote:

Thanks CM.

Just as I thought, he's the new scapegoat.

IMO he's not done anything great but certainly done nothing wrong to deserve the stick he's getting

No St P.

The scape goat will always be Meli (most people in general) or Wellens (Saddened).

Re: Saints v Leeds - Verdict : Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:12 pm  

St pete wrote:

Thanks CM.

Just as I thought, he's the new scapegoat.

IMO he's not done anything great but certainly done nothing wrong to deserve the stick he's getting

If you are not in a position to make a tackle, it doesn't count as a missed tackle, as you've not attempted one. This is where Turner will be appearing to be okay statistically and why missed tackle %s are pretty useless as an indication of overall defensive ability.

I don't think he's being made the scapegoat, as he's not done anything drastically wrong. But he just doesn't seem to have any ability either, it's a strange signing for a side like Saints. He's the kind of player who normally starts at a big club due to his athleticism and physique, then drifts down the league as his lack of talent is exposed.

Re: Saints v Leeds - Verdict : Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:12 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

You may not like this but I'm consistent.

Wheeler and McShane are two of the most overrated young players I have ever seen.
Both teams were better when they were off the park.

Broken record...