Re: Ooc 2013 : Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:10 pm  

Top Saint wrote:

I would generally agree but for 1 detail, He never learned from a single mistake in the 2011 season and continually took the wrong option in attack. I could have accepted this as it was his first full season but he then proceeded to carry the same flaws into the the 2012 season and was quite rightly dropped from the team. Unfortunately our only other viable option was Lance.

I find it hard to believe that he failed to learn from a single mistake. I agree that he was quite rightly dropped, his form and confidence had gone.

Now you try to use the same argument with lomax but fail to realise that his game is based on running good lines and supporting play in a similar way to McGuire at Leeds. He isn't expected to do any ball handling because it is not his game. Leeds have an organising scrum half to do that job.

A half back isn't expected to do any ball handling? Like I said, excuses, excuses.

The main problem Saints have is the lack of an organising half back. Gaskell is not the answer because he is not reliable enough at super league level. I am actually on record as stating that he would make a good centre. I am not discounting him as a player, only as a half back.

He's not reliable at the moment. But very few kids are at this stage in their career.

Re: Ooc 2013 : Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:49 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

He's not reliable at the moment. But very few kids are at this stage in their career.

Sean long was pretty average for his first few seasons, only learning from Tommy and a couple of seasons of experience brought the player we now remember

Re: Ooc 2013 : Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:05 pm  

Long as I recall used to do alot of running about, but had many aspects that he worked on over time. Even when Anderson came in I recall his kicking game getting a boost. We are talking of a player there in his late 20's.

The difference and it's a major difference is the people around him, Cunningham, Joynt, Sculthorpe, Martyn, Hammond, in a team like that you get time to make mistakes and make progress. In our current team players with the creative aspect are not given time. Because of weaknesses elsewhere we have this clamour for an instant halfback. But I think even someone like brough would get it in the neck, because the nature of being a creative half is that you take risks and take chances and you back yourself.

I recall the game against Huddersfield last year where we lost by 1 point. This was a match that Gaskell played. He was not played off the park by Brough and Huddersfield were in red hot form. He more than held his own and gave as good as he got from Brough that day. But because we don't see Huddersfield week in and week out, we don't see the kicks out on the full, the run's when he should have passed etc against other teams.

Given where we are and that we are not going to sign another half, then Gaskell must play, if we can pull another half like Brough out the bag then fine he will get in ahead of Gaskell.

Re: Ooc 2013 : Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:37 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

A half back isn't expected to do any ball handling? Like I said, excuses, excuses.

A lot of good half backs could not ball handle. Schofield and Hanley being 2. They were both excellent at backing up and devastating runners but their passing game was woeful.

Re: Ooc 2013 : Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:53 pm  

Top Saint wrote:

A lot of good half backs could not ball handle. Schofield and Hanley being 2. They were both excellent at backing up and devastating runners but their passing game was woeful.

Hence the reason why Graham Lowe moved Hanley to loose forward, he was was never a half back. This then allowed a pair of real halfbacks (Edwards and Gregory) to perform with Hanley running off them.

Re: Ooc 2013 : Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:53 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Hence the reason why Graham Lowe moved Hanley to loose forward, he was was never a half back. This then allowed a pair of real halfbacks (Edwards and Gregory) to perform with Hanley running off them.

Edwards wasn't much better. He made his name backing up the real half backs. This is actually my point regarding Lomax, He wouldn't need to be a ball playing half back if he had a decent half back partner. Jonny playing with an Andy Gregory type half back would be devastating.

Re: Ooc 2013 : Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:02 pm  

Top Saint wrote:

Edwards wasn't much better. He made his name backing up the real half backs. This is actually my point regarding Lomax, He wouldn't need to be a ball playing half back if he had a decent half back partner. Jonny playing with an Andy Gregory type half back would be devastating.

Lomax has neither Edwards pace, kicking game or rugby nous.

Re: Ooc 2013 : Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:40 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Lomax has neither Edwards pace, kicking game or rugby nous.

Lomax is playing in the halves at an age when Edwards was getting trampled by Mal Menninga at fullback.

Re: Ooc 2013 : Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:43 pm  

Lomax would be better at full back or loose forward I wouldnt play him he the halfs but we aint got no choice at the moment for me his kicking and passes is poorc

Re: Ooc 2013 : Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:33 pm  

Top Saint wrote: Lomax is playing in the halves at an age when Edwards was getting trampled by Mal Menninga at fullback. At Lomaxs age Edwards had played for Great Britain, won two Challenge Cups, a League Championship, a World Club Championship, two John Player trophies and three Lancashire Cups (if my old mate Bilko is correct) http://wigan.rlfans.com/readarticle.php?article_id=361 To suggest that Lomax (and I like him as a player) is anywhere near the level that Edwards was at that age is ludicrous.

Top Saint wrote: Lomax is playing in the halves at an age when Edwards was getting trampled by Mal Menninga at fullback. At Lomaxs age Edwards had played for Great Britain, won two Challenge Cups, a League Championship, a World Club Championship, two John Player trophies and three Lancashire Cups (if my old mate Bilko is correct) http://wigan.rlfans.com/readarticle.php?article_id=361 To suggest that Lomax (and I like him as a player) is anywhere near the level that Edwards was at that age is ludicrous.