Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:26 pm  

The only player to come out of that game with any credit was probably Josh Perry. First 40 mins of one man rugby, i was expecting a change in tempo in the second half but no we got the same again with the exception of the 75th to 78th minute.
It was avery similar game to the Wigan one at the DW, our backs struggling big time against a tight defence.
Well done Warrington they played like the Saints of Old, when are we going to get out Mojo back.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:29 pm  

(Saint) wrote:

The reason we can't get a quick PTB is because we get absolutely mullered in contact.

As a Wire fan - I agree with you. Our offensive defence was very good and winning the collision gave us the go-forward in both attack and defence.

I know there's a lot of doom and gloom on your board after last night - and many of the comments are valid - but you're 3rd in the league - something many other teams only aspire to.

No team has a devine right to always be top and obviously the coaching situation this year has been far from ideal.
It looks like a lot of focus has been on the new stadium and slightly less on the team - I'm not sure how many good youngsters you've got coming through but it's taken us 5+ years to get where we are now (you could argue even longer), but it's Smith that's pulled it all together with superb support from the board.

Not sure how long Brown is signed up for but obviously stability is key.

I must admit that for the 1st time for many many years I was quite relaxed with 20 mins to go and playing you !!

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:32 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

Lomax has done little for me recently, his running game is not effective and he doesn't contribute organisationally. This may be down to him, this may be down to the set up of the team, but he's just not getting involved in broken play which is where he's more effective.

I've said for a while that Lomax is not a 7 and he's convincing me more by the day. The problem is I don't know what his position is. I used to think Full Back but he appears to have bulked quite alot and I don't think he has that explosive running game or creative side to him that good full backs have. Maybe he could slot in at 9 with Roby moving to 13 in future? I'm a bit stumped on this one to be honest. Hopefully Brown will bring him on next season, because he's stagnated this year.

As for other points made, we got dominated in every area. Our defence wasn't intense enough, we allowed Warrington far too much leeway when bringing the ball forward and I'm hoping Brown gets the players hitting harder and defending smarter next season.

Our forwards just don't do enough in the big games. Collectively we don't play well, too many players either aren't good enough or simply play poorly. The odd exception comes out playing well (usually Roby and I thought Clough yesterday), but our props in particular are far too inconsistent and not dominant enough in the big games. The rest of the team has no chance when the platform isn't being laid.

Our half backs are as bad as I've seen in the 20 years watching the club. We've had so many naturally gifted & creative players over the years starting from when I 1st started watching - Tea Ropati, Shane Cooper, Bobbie Goulding, Tommy Martyn, Sean Long and Leon Pryce. Now we have one natural half back in the squad and he's not even in the side (Lee Gaskell). I've already mentioned Lomax but Lance Hohaia, whilst being a decent player is never a half back in a million years and never will be. He doesn't have a kicking game, his passing isn't great, his organisational skills are non existant and he doesn't really have the rugby game to play in such a key positions. He has a running game and works hard, but that's about it for me. It was crucifying watching two headless chickens guide us around the park and when you have Wellens linking in at 3rd man, it's horrible to watch. Our ball movement is so pedestrian, the good sides deal with it easily. Our outside backs get no decent service and judging by their limited abilities, they require that space to do anything.

Possibly the worst part of our game right now is the kicking game. Nobody takes control of this area. Wilkin is basically playing three positions at the moment - half back, loose forward and back row and he's looking bad at times for it. Wilkin shouldn't be our primary go to man when it comes to the kicking game. There is no control over either our long or short kicking game and it's ultimately ending our sets really badly. It doesn't matter as much against the poorer sides but the big sides will eventually grind us down and work their up the field and win the territory battle.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:41 pm  

Blobbynator wrote:

As for other points made, we got dominated in every area. Our defence wasn't intense enough, we allowed Warrington far too much leeway when bringing the ball forward and I'm hoping Brown gets the players hitting harder and defending smarter next season.

It was very noticeable tbh. Saints jogged 3 steps in then stopped and waited for the collision, Warrington on the other had were aggressive in defence all night and put our players on their arses which pretty much neutralised the Roby threat

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:19 pm  

No1 Saint wrote:

It was very noticeable tbh. Saints jogged 3 steps in then stopped and waited for the collision, Warrington on the other had were aggressive in defence all night and put our players on their arses which pretty much neutralised the Roby threat

Roby might as well not be on the pitch when our forwards put in displays like that, we need to win the impact and put them on the back foot in order to give robes his running game.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:55 pm  

Wish they would play Lance at 9 and Roby at 13. Next season back 3 of Manu, Soliola and Roby could be lethal in open play away from the ruck area.
Agree what people are saying about Lomax, I would interchange him with Lance at No 9, which means Gaskell operating at scrum half. So that leaves an experienced no 6 a top priority.
Feel sorry for Wilkin at the moment, he seems to be plan B, when nothing works from the halfs give it to Wilko to come up with something.
Brown has got an enormous task next season in every aspect of our gameplay.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:57 pm  

Im unsure about Wilkin, he gives his all in defence. In attack i want him to either be a strong running 2nd row or loose ball player, atm he is neither. He takes up the ball in one set, the next 3 he is throwing balls which make you wince. Also who told him he can kick, fair enough he puts in the odd good bomb, fine. But then he tries all the little grubbers or chip kicks which nearly always results in a 20m tap.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:06 pm  

Dime_Bar wrote:

Im unsure about Wilkin, he gives his all in defence. In attack i want him to either be a strong running 2nd row or loose ball player, atm he is neither. He takes up the ball in one set, the next 3 he is throwing balls which make you wince. Also who told him he can kick, fair enough he puts in the odd good bomb, fine. But then he tries all the little grubbers or chip kicks which nearly always results in a 20m tap.

I've not been been a big fan of wilkin for sometime now, I won't knock his defensive effort but with ball in hand he's just a waste of space. He's just to small to be a running backrow and not clever enough to be a ball player.

I just wonder if he justifies his salary as a top tier player.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:07 pm  

Dime_Bar wrote:

Im unsure about Wilkin, he gives his all in defence. In attack i want him to either be a strong running 2nd row or loose ball player, atm he is neither. He takes up the ball in one set, the next 3 he is throwing balls which make you wince. Also who told him he can kick, fair enough he puts in the odd good bomb, fine. But then he tries all the little grubbers or chip kicks which nearly always results in a 20m tap.

This is what I,m concerned about he does some work in offence that the halfs should be doing, then when it does;t work out we slate him for it. Do we expect him to make 40 tackles every match then expect him to be as good offensively as well, whilst Flannery who does less work in defence and offence gets off fairly lightly.

The question is would we be better or worse in the pack if Wilkin is not selected.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:21 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

This is what I,m concerned about he does some work in offence that the halfs should be doing, then when it does;t work out we slate him for it. Do we expect him to make 40 tackles every match then expect him to be as good offensively as well, whilst Flannery who does less work in defence and offence gets off fairly lightly.

Personally i think Wilkin gets abit fustrated with play thats why he ends up throwing silly passes/ stupid kicks. if i have busted my gut and made 40/50 tackles a game the last thing you would want is playing one up rugby getting mullered by the opposition forwards set in set out.

With regards to if he was one of the top earners i would assume he is, is that disapointing, yes. He puts so much effort in, you cant question that, but what comes first effort or ability. Would Wilkin get into Warringtons packs yesterday, probaly not, will he be earning more than the likes of Hill, Cooper, McCarthy, Carvell, Harrison etc i would think so