Re: Cladding : Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:59 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Tell that to the bar staff, especially on the days when their hands were red with cold and they were shivering.

boo hoo. they have a job, plenty of people have to work when its cold

Re: Cladding : Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:03 pm  

Saint Simon wrote:

boo hoo. they have a job, plenty of people have to work when its cold

However, if they were employed as indoor bar staff they would be within their legal rights to walk out if the temperature fell to a certain level.

Oh, and outdoor workers are generally allowed to dress for the occasion. The bar staff at LP are not.

Re: Cladding : Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:06 pm  

I agree with saintsfan on this, it needs sorting and to be honest should have been sorted by now.

Not only is it accident waiting to happen but it's putting future non saints games at risk of not being played at Langtree park which isn't cost effective for the club.

If its raining for the exiles game and the fans are getting set and walking thru puddles then I'd guess some will complain, if they complain to the RFL and it's proven then the RFL are not going to hold events there again.

Personally im fine in the south stand and took the decision to go in the south stand from someone at the club and he also told me to sit near the back to avoid getting wet.

Re: Cladding : Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:18 pm  

If left open I can't imagine what the interior of the stadium will look like after a few years of rain and snow.

Re: Cladding : Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:35 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

I'm sure a good majority of people on this board will attend come rain or shine, cladding or not. However they are the same people who turned up at Knowsley road taking their health in their own hands every time the ball was kicked into the asbestos roofing.

What people are really concerned are about those extra fans the stadium has attracted and whether we can keep them or build on them. If no one says anything about cladding then it would be a fair call for the board to assume it is not an issue and therefore not a priority for next years spending.

If they plan to still install cladding, but there is no cash, simple, they could just say we have spent what we can this year in terms of the stadium. x-millions and although cladding is on a list of to do jobs, it will be next year or the year after before enough revenue has been made by the stadium to pay for this. We the board are letting our wallets have a well deserved breather after 10 continual years of losses. It's now time for the ground to pay back some of those loans and shareholdings and when that has been done we can start to look at the final cladding.

I'd be more than happy with that as an answer from the club, if people are not happy with that, then maybe we can have a fan whip around 'Bradford styleee' and see if we can stump up the cash.

It's the lack of an answer which frustrates as peoples expectations are raised with promises of cladding pre good friday, that then seam to be left hanging, if the club said we think cladding would make no difference to the wind or the puddles then fair enough at least it's an answer.

I am that soldier.

I didn't go to KR for the very reason that not only was it a dump but and a wet, cold and insanitary dump. (Aye but it was our dump.......).

As you say, if they have run out of money, then I can accept it if they need to put it off for a while but if they have no intention of doing anything, I'll continue to miss the odd game like Friday when the weather is poor.

Re: Cladding : Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:41 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

However, if they were employed as indoor bar staff they would be within their legal rights to walk out if the temperature fell to a certain level.

Oh, and outdoor workers are generally allowed to dress for the occasion. The bar staff at LP are not.

Unless it is specfically written into their contract that is untrue. If employed by an employer for more than a month the staff must provide a minimum of one weeks notice.

The employer does have a duty of care, 16C is generally considered to be the minimum working temperature without PPE or heaters being used. However this remains guidence only and the basic rule of thumb is the more active the role the cooler a workroom can be.

Therefore the faster they serve the beer the cooler the bar can be. No Cl4dding = faster bar staff... in theory.

Re: Cladding : Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:55 pm  

Well at least we have our own cladding thread, saves this stuff turning up elsewhere.

But I do know of 5 season ticket holders who are hoping they can renew but for the south stand next year or they may not get season tickets next year. And 3 of them where season ticket holders at KR and Widnes.

In the end you can call people soft, and say what about Bradford etc, but at bradford your paying less than £100 per season ticket. Bradford has not been redeveloped. If people choose not to take another season ticket the club won't be saying oh they are soft or they should count their lucky chickens, they will be saying was all the money invested worth it.

Fans will still come, it's whether they come in numbers that matters.

Re: Cladding : Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:08 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

Well at least we have our own cladding thread, saves this stuff turning up elsewhere.

But I do know of 5 season ticket holders who are hoping they can renew but for the south stand next year or they may not get season tickets next year. And 3 of them where season ticket holders at KR and Widnes.

In the end you can call people soft, and say what about Bradford etc, but at bradford your paying less than £100 per season ticket. Bradford has not been redeveloped. If people choose not to take another season ticket the club won't be saying oh they are soft or they should count their lucky chickens, they will be saying was all the money invested worth it.

Fans will still come, it's whether they come in numbers that matters.

Like I've said previous, I'm in the posh stand (south) thanks to being tipped off by someone at saints about getting rained on.

If I was in the north stand and I was getting wet or having to sit on a wet seat, I'd have no doubt I'd ask to be moved or my season ticket money back. I don't care if people say its soft or what, I've not paid to get wet and spoil my enjoyment of watching the game.

The cladding problem is a disgrace really for the "best purpose built rugby stadium in englAnd "

Re: Cladding : Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:20 pm  

The Jamster wrote: Unless it is specfically written into their contract that is untrue. If employed by an employer for more than a month the staff must provide a minimum of one weeks notice. Yep, that is correct but it will not be the case for the bar staff at Saints as they are agency workers. Or the majority of them are. They could walk out without any notice at all if they chose. The employer does have a duty of care, 16C is generally considered to be the minimum working temperature without PPE or heaters being used. However this remains guidence only and the basic rule of thumb is the more active the role the cooler a workroom can be. Indeed you are correct about the law in relation to temperature. However, there is nothing to suggest that it is guidance only. Here is what the Health & Safety Executive say: Temperatures in the workplace are covered by the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992, which place a legal obligation on employers to provide a “reasonable” temperature in the workplace. It would appear that a single temperature cannot be used due to the varying nature of workplaces and duties undertaken. See here. The reference to a lower temperature than 16C is in workplaces where the tasks are active and in those instances the temperature can fall to 13C. In both cases the employer is obliged to make staff 'comfortable' if the temperature is lower than either 16C (for sedentary jobs) or 13C (for active jobs). Saints appear to have failed to meet their obligations at Langtree Park on occasion. Therefore, there could be grounds for action if the staff chose to take it. Therefore the faster they serve the beer the cooler the bar can be. No Cl4dding = faster bar staff... in theory. See above. If they have products that require chilling, the employer is obliged to make the staff comfortable. The bar staff at Saints have rarely been comfortable. On one occasion, back in winter when the snow fell, they were without gloves or outdoor clothing. Their hands were red and two staff were visibly shivering. However, in spite of all that, I have not been able to discover yet what the legal consequences would be - if any - if staff walked out of their employment due to the temperature being too low (and, by implication, the employer not making them comfortable). I need to do some more investigating.

The Jamster wrote: Unless it is specfically written into their contract that is untrue. If employed by an employer for more than a month the staff must provide a minimum of one weeks notice. Yep, that is correct but it will not be the case for the bar staff at Saints as they are agency workers. Or the majority of them are. They could walk out without any notice at all if they chose. The employer does have a duty of care, 16C is generally considered to be the minimum working temperature without PPE or heaters being used. However this remains guidence only and the basic rule of thumb is the more active the role the cooler a workroom can be. Indeed you are correct about the law in relation to temperature. However, there is nothing to suggest that it is guidance only. Here is what the Health & Safety Executive say: Temperatures in the workplace are covered by the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992, which place a legal obligation on employers to provide a “reasonable” temperature in the workplace. It would appear that a single temperature cannot be used due to the varying nature of workplaces and duties undertaken. See here. The reference to a lower temperature than 16C is in workplaces where the tasks are active and in those instances the temperature can fall to 13C. In both cases the employer is obliged to make staff 'comfortable' if the temperature is lower than either 16C (for sedentary jobs) or 13C (for active jobs). Saints appear to have failed to meet their obligations at Langtree Park on occasion. Therefore, there could be grounds for action if the staff chose to take it. Therefore the faster they serve the beer the cooler the bar can be. No Cl4dding = faster bar staff... in theory. See above. If they have products that require chilling, the employer is obliged to make the staff comfortable. The bar staff at Saints have rarely been comfortable. On one occasion, back in winter when the snow fell, they were without gloves or outdoor clothing. Their hands were red and two staff were visibly shivering. However, in spite of all that, I have not been able to discover yet what the legal consequences would be - if any - if staff walked out of their employment due to the temperature being too low (and, by implication, the employer not making them comfortable). I need to do some more investigating.

Re: Cladding : Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:39 pm  

I think the staffing issue is a red herring. In the end it's about the paying customers. Never forget, it maybe sport, it maybe entertainment, but the minute sport went pro, it became a business and in business those who pay are called customers.

What is that famous mantra???

The customer is always right!!!!

Whilst sporting fans are customers who may not go and shop elsewhere, they may just stop shopping!!!!