Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:38 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Indeed. That's why I said that time will tell. But it remains a concern for me because it has happened at Hudds throughout his time as coach there. If any coach of ours had overseen a repeated second half season slump while in charge, everyone on here would believe it was the coach because of that element of predictability.

You think they are behind us? For the last two seasons we have been behind them! (I think we were behind them in 2010 too for some of the season but I can't remember) And as for Leeds ... at present they aren't even in the top eight.

I presume our chairman thinks he is a good coach and that is why he has given him a three year contract. I have little faith in our chairman when it comes to making decisions on the rugby front but as I said earlier, time will tell. As for doing an outstanding job, I would agree with you had his team been to a number of finals or shown signs of playing up in the pressure games but they have been to one final and consistently fail to play up in the pressure games. I am therefore concerned that our present attitude in pressure games will not be turned around under Brown. However, as I have also already said, I hope to be proven wrong.

Because the performance of a team under his coaching for a period of four years is good evidence as to the impact of that coaching on a team, a team that has changed over the four years as well. He has brought in most of those players.

It's impossible to judge a coach by what he has or hasn't won at other clubs, as I've said, it's different team totally.

Take a look at smith who was doing ok job at hudds and went on to coach cup winning side in leeds. DA had won nothing at NZ warriors (lost final I think). Ian millward stepped up from the lower league to win nearly everyone possible.

Coaches of "lesser" teams often need the step up to bigger teams to be able to go on and win stuff.

Let's be honest, would you ever part with your money on a bet that hudds would win a cup? I wouldn't that's for sure

Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:42 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

I don't see any change at all in our defence since Rush has been in charge. We defended very well in some games while Simmons was still here just as we didn't defend so well in two (HKR and Catalans). We almost gave away the CC game to Widnes, Catalans-stylee, and didn't even bother turning up to Manchester (our worst defensive showing of the season so far). Presumably they all received a sound kicking before going to Hull but that isn't the first time they have defended like that. At Bradford they were down to 12 men but didn't concede, for example; against Cas they defended their line resolutely to hold on for a win, and obviously they did a big stint in defence at Hull but that was due in large part to them indulging in something else they have been fairly consistent in doing all season: dropping the ball and giving away penalties (presumably in dangerous territory).

I think it's clear we've improved as we've stopped losing and started winning games (think we've won 9 from last 11 league games) and I think we will win 8 of our last 11 games.

Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:52 pm  

St pete wrote:

It's impossible to judge a coach by what he has or hasn't won at other clubs, as I've said, it's different team totally.

Everyone in every job is assessed in part on what they have done in their previous job. Have you never compiled a CV before?

Take a look at smith who was doing ok job at hudds and went on to coach cup winning side in leeds. DA had won nothing at NZ warriors (lost final I think). Ian millward stepped up from the lower league to win nearly everyone possible.

Indeed. And it's quite possible that Anderson will do what Brown is unable to do and take Hudds to cup glory. Would that make Anderson a better coach than Brown? Silverware is not what I am talking about. We know how fickle the search for that can be (three injuries to key players in the second half and what was within the grasp is suddenly gone, for example). However, like it or not, the fact of the matter is, the Hudds team do not play up in pressure matches and they have a second half season slump, consistently. That has to be something to concern anyone looking at the new coach with eyes other than those of a disciple to a saviour.

Let's be honest, would you ever part with your money on a bet that hudds would win a cup? I wouldn't that's for sure

I wouldn't part with my money on a bet that WE would win a cup either.

Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:53 pm  

Well my squad for next year would be this, I've put the players in order of preference if there is more than one for each position

FB: Makinson/Lomax
Wing: Ade Swift/Foster ( I would not be looking to buy in a wing with more pressing positions)
Centre: Turner Jones/Wheeler (I'm assuming Shenton will find another club, but if not he would go in before Jones)
Halves: New Controlling halfback, Gaskell/Lomax (Lomax with Gaskell taking a role at LF would be preferable for 3 pivots)
Prop: New Prop, LMS
Hooker: Roby
2nd Row: Manu, Sia (Sia may move up to prop though with Brown open to moving players around which would take away the need for a 2nd new prop)
LF: Gaskell/Wilkin/Flanaghan (I would prefer a ball playing LF and would let all 3 have a chance to gain a place)

Subs:

TP, Wilkin, Flanaghan, Clough, New Prop, Perry

Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:57 pm  

St pete wrote:

I think it's clear we've improved as we've stopped losing and started winning games (think we've won 9 from last 11 league games) and I think we will win 8 of our last 11 games.

We have lost two and drawn one league game since Rush took over (and of course been kicked out of the CC). Hull was a loss until we were given a penalty. If you want to count penalties to secure a draw as an example of our improvement then so be it but I'm not that easily charmed.

We won games under Simmons, too, you know.

Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:06 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

We have lost two and drawn one league game since Rush took over (and of course been kicked out of the CC). Hull was a loss until we were given a penalty. If you want to count penalties to secure a draw as an example of our improvement then so be it but I'm not that easily charmed.

We won games under Simmons, too, you know.

But it is an improvement.

Better than a loss to Hull at home!

Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:34 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

But it is an improvement.

Better than a loss to Hull at home!

The point for me was the way we lost under Simmons, Apart from the Manchester mashing I dont think we've hit that low level under Rush.

Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:36 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

We have lost two and drawn one league game since Rush took over (and of course been kicked out of the CC). Hull was a loss until we were given a penalty. If you want to count penalties to secure a draw as an example of our improvement then so be it but I'm not that easily charmed.

We won games under Simmons, too, you know.

Hull was also a win as we was winning if you want to look at it that way

The result is after 80 mins, not 78.

Your so negative towards mike rush and KC that I honestly thi I you want them to fail and fall flat on their faces.

Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:38 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

We have lost two and drawn one league game since Rush took over (and of course been kicked out of the CC). Hull was a loss until we were given a penalty. If you want to count penalties to secure a draw as an example of our improvement then so be it but I'm not that easily charmed.

We won games under Simmons, too, you know.

Lots of games are won in the last minute,over the years Saints have been the masters at snatching a late win or draw.Its like saying the wide to West game was a loss until we scored or the Warrington games over the past few years were a loss until we won or drew.

The Wigan games aside there has been a marked improvement in the team since Royce left,the very fact we were able to get a draw at the end of the Hull game points to a dont give up attitude.Getting 1 point awy at Hull in the rain isnt bad.We will never know now but given the teams form with Royce i doubt we would of got the point,just my opion.

Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:09 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

But it is an improvement.

Like I say, if you consider grabbing a draw thanks to a penalty an improvement then it's an improvement but I don't agree that it is. Getting the penalty in the first place was just down to luck of the draw (or in this case Mr Halibut's decision making!).

Better than a loss to Hull at home!

A draw is always better than a loss obviously. It's one point we wouldn't have had had the penalty not been awarded.