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Re: Surprise! Surprise! No changes ... : Wed May 30, 2012 8:59 pm  
It's the 'we were the best thing since sliced bread last week' comment that gets me, just like the after the last Wigan game he thought we weren't far off. At first I thought he was just playing mind games but I think he actually believes that.

Leeds were awful last week, and aside from one decent move we were woeful in attack. It was only the ridiculously quick play the ball during that game (Ganson special) that got us the result, and that is our plan A. We don't have a plan B. Rush also seems to believe in the Anderson style of coaching, that completion rate alone will win you games. Against most teams it will, but not against teams who can attack from anywhere, and five drives and a kick would probably get you a decent completion rate but wouldn't win you much.

I suppose our season depends on the halves clicking and the rest of the team giving them the right options. A decent three quarter line would help and if given space the current one could probably do some damage, but you can't polish a turd.
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Re: Surprise! Surprise! No changes ... : Wed May 30, 2012 9:03 pm  
No1 Saint wrote:
We'd be fighting hard for the wooden spoon by now if we'd done that. You may have the memory of a goldfish but I recall clearly just how bad we were under Simmons this year.


Matter-of-factly declaring that we would be worse off under Simmons doesn't make it true. Yes, we did play poorly early in the season. But you cannot seriously argue there was no chance whatsoever we'd bounce back. After all, we'd done something similar last season with most of the same players.

At the time fans derided our form in the Hull and Salford games. Yet both those clubs have carved out excellent results against good opposition. The latter even turned over the very same team whose coach we are pinning all our hopes on.

In any case, I'd argue some of our worst performances have come under Rush. Yes, we've only lost to Wigan. But the MANNER of those defeats has been depressing. And let's not forget the fact that Widnes came within an inch of making us look like utter fools.

In hindsight Royce wasn't the right man for the job. But the EVIDENCE (you know - that Grand Final thingy) suggests he was nowhere near as bad as many fans claim. If McManus was going to can him he should have done it either at the end of last season or this. Putting the fortunes of the club into the hands of a man with no real experience for an entire season was a stupid decision. Even if it does work out it would only take a collapse in Huddersfield's form to leave us in the unenviable position of waiting for a coach we might not want.
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Re: Surprise! Surprise! No changes ... : Wed May 30, 2012 9:05 pm  
Smurf wrote:
Rush also seems to believe in the Anderson style of coaching

Well, as I mentioned elsewhere, in the latest Saints podcast Rush says he is in touch with Anderson on a weekly basis and he did spend around a season as Anderson's deputy while we awaited a new assistant coach.
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Re: Surprise! Surprise! No changes ... : Wed May 30, 2012 9:06 pm  
Anderson will be around whilst he's over here for the Exiles.
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Re: Surprise! Surprise! No changes ... : Wed May 30, 2012 9:27 pm  
Mugwump wrote:
Matter-of-factly declaring that we would be worse off under Simmons doesn't make it true. Yes, we did play poorly early in the season. But you cannot seriously argue there was no chance whatsoever we'd bounce back. After all, we'd done something similar last season with most of the same players.

Spot on.

At the time fans derided our form in the Hull and Salford games. Yet both those clubs have carved out excellent results against good opposition. The latter even turned over the very same team whose coach we are pinning all our hopes on.

Absolutely. Both have improved and we still have to play them again.

In any case, I'd argue some of our worst performances have come under Rush. Yes, we've only lost to Wigan. But the MANNER of those defeats has been depressing. And let's not forget the fact that Widnes came within an inch of making us look like utter fools.

I agree entirely.

Putting the fortunes of the club into the hands of a man with no real experience for an entire season was a stupid decision.

Exactly.

The bit about Hudds is what continues to concern me in relation to the appointment of Brown, especially given our lack of fire.
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Re: Surprise! Surprise! No changes ... : Wed May 30, 2012 10:10 pm  
No1 Saint wrote:
You may have the memory of a goldfish but I recall clearly just how bad we were under Simmons this year.


Because the players had thrown their toys out of the pram and were no longer playing for him!!!! What is so difficult about this for people to understand? He may have been **** but we still (practically) won a GF with the guy and nearly the same players just a few games earlier, with little difference between the team that mullered Wigan twice and was well on top against Leeds and the shambles against Bradford except for individual player performance. If the players had put in 1/4 of the effort in the Hull/Bradford/etc. games when they weren't turning up that they put into the Leeds/Warrington games after they'd gotten their way then we would now be performing a lot better and be looking a lot healthier for the rest of the season. Simmons has been shown up as far from being a top SL coach and needed to go at the end of the season. But Rush is being shown up as being not a SL coach at all.
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Re: Surprise! Surprise! No changes ... : Wed May 30, 2012 10:13 pm  
Mugwump wrote:
Matter-of-factly declaring that we would be worse off under Simmons doesn't make it true. Yes, we did play poorly early in the season. But you cannot seriously argue there was no chance whatsoever we'd bounce back. After all, we'd done something similar last season with most of the same players.

At the time fans derided our form in the Hull and Salford games. Yet both those clubs have carved out excellent results against good opposition. The latter even turned over the very same team whose coach we are pinning all our hopes on.

In any case, I'd argue some of our worst performances have come under Rush. Yes, we've only lost to Wigan. But the MANNER of those defeats has been depressing. And let's not forget the fact that Widnes came within an inch of making us look like utter fools.

In hindsight Royce wasn't the right man for the job. But the EVIDENCE (you know - that Grand Final thingy) suggests he was nowhere near as bad as many fans claim. If McManus was going to can him he should have done it either at the end of last season or this. Putting the fortunes of the club into the hands of a man with no real experience for an entire season was a stupid decision. Even if it does work out it would only take a collapse in Huddersfield's form to leave us in the unenviable position of waiting for a coach we might not want.


Mugwump my lad, you talk a lot of sense. There's some hope for you yet ;)
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Re: Surprise! Surprise! No changes ... : Thu May 31, 2012 12:59 am  
Sounds as if Rushy has slipped into our old 'Brian Noble' philosophy of its not how you start its how you finish blah blah blah. Expect a dire season, with a couple of playoff wins. Oh how times change :)
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Re: Surprise! Surprise! No changes ... : Thu May 31, 2012 7:33 am  
When Northampton and Mugwup agree surely that's a sign of the apocolypse.

Whilst we are not great, we are more organised. Rush and Cunningham(interesting we've now seperated them and MR is getting all the flack) seam to have taken us on a basic game plan which works against most SL outfits, is far from enertaining, but they have simply no interest in managing players.

However I do believe that every cloud has a silver lining. This extended period is allowing to see some home truth's.
I've rated Wheeler from one 30 minute spell, but this constant run shows that it's not something he can do on a regular basis. Lance can't say he's not been given any chance at half back, until he got a run it could have been a case of us not playing well but thinking that maybe lance could change it all if he got a run at half back.

Wellens the mind is willing but the body just cannot do it and he is being asked to do more than ever to make up for failings elsewhere in the team, but has been ghosted past by too many players for it to be a one off.
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Re: Surprise! Surprise! No changes ... : Thu May 31, 2012 10:27 am  
Mugwump wrote:
Matter-of-factly declaring that we would be worse off under Simmons doesn't make it true. Yes, we did play poorly early in the season. But you cannot seriously argue there was no chance whatsoever we'd bounce back. After all, we'd done something similar last season with most of the same players.

At the time fans derided our form in the Hull and Salford games. Yet both those clubs have carved out excellent results against good opposition. The latter even turned over the very same team whose coach we are pinning all our hopes on.

In any case, I'd argue some of our worst performances have come under Rush. Yes, we've only lost to Wigan. But the MANNER of those defeats has been depressing. And let's not forget the fact that Widnes came within an inch of making us look like utter fools.

In hindsight Royce wasn't the right man for the job. But the EVIDENCE (you know - that Grand Final thingy) suggests he was nowhere near as bad as many fans claim. If McManus was going to can him he should have done it either at the end of last season or this. Putting the fortunes of the club into the hands of a man with no real experience for an entire season was a stupid decision. Even if it does work out it would only take a collapse in Huddersfield's form to leave us in the unenviable position of waiting for a coach we might not want.

I was an advocate of getting rid of Royce when we did and, to be honest, I stand by it. My mood, which mirrored that of most after the Hull and Bradford was at an all time low. We lost to those two sides without them doing very much, to be honest (save a bit of magic from Turner).
I genuinely think those performances were going to have a severe detrimental effect on next years ST sales if they were allowed to continue, which I think would have been at the forefront of McManus's mind.
What he did by sacking Royce was to partially nullify any lack of performance for the rest of this season, knowing that it could be attributed to a temporary coaching staff and that people would be looking forward to a shiney new dawn under a new coach.
I'm not sure what went on with Royce but I don't think we're were going to see a turn around like we did last year under him, I think things had gone too far.
Whilst the Wigan results have been very hard to stomach, we have beaten every body else we've come up against. I'd be wary of playing Wire again, but apart from that I'm reasonably confident about our pack grinding out a win.
Is it also worth pointing out that I reckon Wigan look better this year than last?

Most of us have vented our frustration that Gaskell hasn't been brought back in. We all think its obvious that he'll improve us. Rush, however, seems intent on keeping the same 17 every week. Its possible that he thinks that that side will win every 4 out of 5 games and finish a resepctable position - not a bad stint for a caretaker manager.

Whilst I can understand that point of veiw, I find it curious that a coach who's made his name developing young players is so reluctant to experiment with players and indeed, put some faith in a young lad that is at least partially proven.

I don't particulary like Rush when he's interviewed, the flippant and sarcastic answers grate on me a little.
As they said to Shaun McCrae when he was given the coaching role - "You've got two jobs as Sants coach. One - win a trophy. Two - beat Wigan."
Unless you're doing one of them at least occasionally, you can't be smug.
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